Thank god; if you were going to scrap your main terrain, that would've been a huge waste of amazing work...

I like your Halo 4-ish idea for the new background! I'm just curious, though... I vaguely remember
you mentioning this in an earlier post, so sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself. Are you thinking of
putting this map on a Halo, or will it be in some sort of planet/shield world?

If it's going to be on a Halo, I think the wall should actually be the "edge" of the Ring.
Most maps are set somewhere around the middle of the ring (except Reach's Hemorrhage, which is towards the
edge -that's why the ring in the background is kinda tilted to the side), so maybe you could make things
a little different? Just a suggestion.

Level 2 of Halo 4: the giant Floating Columns

Put something like that in the sky, then have the top of the sky enclosed by like a sheild world hub

hmm actually the map will be in a shield world, i did mention it in like 4 posts but wth i can say it again haha, i will post some pics of how it will be as soon as i start working on the sky :-)






That's the idea actually, i said it in previous posts, many posts actually :P
Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 26, 2013 at 01:37 AM

So... No classic version?

I don't suppose you can just toss in CMT's weapon set that's been released so far, and just use Z-Team's stuff for the rest, can you?

That's unfortunate. Is there anything I can say that would make you reconsider?

I want to host your map for competitive play. Your BSP looks balanced but can you say the same for your weapon set?

I've never come across a custom weapon set that plays as well as the classic set, prove me wrong if I've missed something, though.

I cant rely see what you got going on. Can you hook us up with some renders or something?

Looks like you just puled out a hole new bsp.
Edited by jackrabbit on Apr 26, 2013 at 05:19 PM

I agree with stunt man and R39 Sniper. It'd be better if you use another weapon set.

The default weapon set could always work. It's standard, doesn't look too bad, and it has nice effects.

was (h3) Core and (h3) Imposing v2 weapons that bad? you tell me, if you haven't seen those maps, download them and play them so you can check the weapons

there is more variety on the weapons you can choose, they got good quality, good appearance.

they DO give balance depending on where you place them and how many of them

you still have the assault rifle, pistol, shotgun, needler, plasma rifle, plasma pistol, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, fuel rod gun, in other words... the stock weapons but revamped

BUT

you also got the covenant carbine, spiker, brute plasma rifle, brute plasma pistol, battle rifle, mauler and maybe energy sword, brute shot and gauss sniper rifle

you like the classic weapon set, that's good, but it's all about tastes, people usually like to have newer content
Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 26, 2013 at 06:16 PM

Yes but there are still many many others who also prefer the classic tagset. It dosent take a ton of work to go back and replace the current weapon positions with the classic ones. Changing the globals, vehicles, etc is also straight forward, considering there... default.

I actually second that. The classic weapon set is incredible, even though there is an obvious lack of mid-range weapons. The only thing I don't particularly like is this mix between CMT SPV3 weapons and other tagsets. Personally I believe the Halo 1 weapons paired with a regular Halo 1 HUD would fit the map much better.

Do what you like, though. If you feel like an updated tagset is what the map needs, by all means. You've done an incredible job with your map so far and I have plenty of faith in your decision.

hmm, i don't know, i liked the weapon set from his previous maps so did most of the people who downloaded the map i'm sure of it, so what's wrong with it? seriously guys

the way he says it makes it look like he wants to stick with that same set of weapons, so yeah, let him be

There's nothing wrong with it.

We are just asking for a classic version. Many other maps do the same exact thing.

False, in my opinion. I'd say pretty much all custom weapons and bipeds (with certain, rare exceptions) lack the polish and balance tweaks necessary to make them look and feel as good as possible in the game engine.

I'm not crapping on custom weapon designers, nor am I trying to stiffle creativity, but simply hand-picking weapons from other people's custom tag sets does two things: creates an unbalanced multiplayer setting and looks inconsistent with both the environments and the engine itself (think fov's, shaders, anims, etc).

The community has come a long way in creating custom assets for the game but let's not forget that if a map designer wants his map to be played and hosted over and over and over again, certain expectations need to be met.

Like I mentioned earlier, your BSP looks like it was designed for competitive CTF (like your other maps). You have a good sense of layout, paths and base design. These are the things that you ought to showcase in your map, not someone else's custom weapons/vehicles.

Release only a custom version, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that will play this for a few minutes, or a few hours, and then move on, simply because we've seen H2/H3/HR variants before.

Release a classic version and you have less things working against you, and people can judge the map on YOUR work on the BSP instead of other people's work on custom tagsets (which are unquestionably sub-par to Bungie's work on the stock weapons/vehicles, in terms of balance, polish and design).

Of course, the choice is yours, and if you truly feel like the custom weapons are necessary in your project, by all means go ahead and release it the way you planned.
Edited by stunt_man on Apr 27, 2013 at 09:37 AM

hmm alright...

I have an idea, what if I release it both versions? one with the custom weapons and vehicles and one with the classic ones?

I can include both versions within the same .rar file (assuming Dennis will allow me to do that...

It is pretty easy to swap from tagsets actually so I don't mind doing that
BUT PLEASE, i DON'T WANT THIS THREAD TO BE DERAILED BY A DISCUSSION LIKE IT HAPPENED TO MY THREAD OF MY FIRST VERSION OF MY MAP IMPOSING :-(

so.. is that ok for you guys?

Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 27, 2013 at 10:55 AM

these are my maps with those tagsets, some weapons are only included in "Imposing"

There's nothing wrong with the tagset, at least in my opinion, i don't know if those who are complaining haven't seen this tagset or they did but don't like it, but oh well...

imposing
Core
Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

just as i said, i like that tagset, you can release both version tho, for those who want classic and the custom weapons and vehicles

Yeah, I played your other maps to see for myself.

IMO the stock tagset works better, but, this is my opinion. I don't speak for everyone.

I think it would be cool if you released two versions, one classic and one custom. Upload both to halomaps. You could call one of them "mapname.map" and the other "mapname_classic.map."

I'm not trying to interfere with your idea for your map, just saying that a classic version would be nice, and would allow for more balanced, competitive play.

Edited by stunt_man on Apr 27, 2013 at 01:03 PM

I will release both versions, i will talk to Dennis to see if i can include both versions in the same rar file


Well we can worry about the tagset later, guys i don't even have a name for the map yet lol, and i'm not even close to be done with this map haha

Well i'm done with the outer terrain, the rest will be added with the sky tag, i still need to add textures to the structures and part of the terrain, and i still have to check in game if i don't get problems with the clipping distance on the structures





Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 27, 2013 at 01:02 PM

Looks awesome! Those new structures are a good addition.

EDIT: Think about it like this: for the tagset, the custom version will have more variables. Let's say 50% of people like your map's design, but can't stand the custom weapons, you could lose 50% of your players. If you release a classic version, however, those people will be able to enjoy the map's design without any gripes. And the people who want to play with the custom tagset get their own version. It could make the difference between your map being played for a month, and your map being played for a year...
Edited by stunt_man on Apr 27, 2013 at 01:06 PM

Wait... I just think he should use a tagset different from SPv3. I don't care about a classic version, I would like it, but ONLY a classic version? please no.

Only a classic version is maybe what several halomaps users preffer, but this map is also directed to normal Halo CE users who preffer a SPv3 tagset and who can't participate in this thread. So I think you should do the SPv3 version too, or even better, use a different tagset for the "non-classic" version (don't ask me wich tagset could be, because idk).

I don't have much problem with the SPv3 tagset but another one could work better in your map, a Halo 2 version, Halo 3 version, idk something like that.

Read the first part of my previous post man, i replied to you saying that i will release both, classic and custom versions of the map, this is the 3rd time i say it
Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 27, 2013 at 01:24 PM

I really like the progress on the map. As far as the tagset goes, the ma5k from spv2 with a much slower RoF could be put into the classic tagset to take place as a mid-ranged weapon. Just an idea. Either way your map will be good considering the quality of your other maps and the great layout this map has.

For the record imposing & Core Are the best 2 maps I have played sense I came back to this community. and I liked the weapons so much I asked you for them. If you don't recall. after I played core I just had to go get imposing.

A shotgun is a shotgun if you update existing models and keep all the animations and rest of the setting's the same and make sure it has 12 shotgun shells. like the original.
12 shot shotgun and not the 6 shot reach shotgun it rely does not change game play at all.

If you have only updated models and shader's it's pretty much still the same weapons.
I honestly don't even see why you need to release 2 versions of the map. as long as its properly beta tested and play's out right and the weapons are balanced your good.

But everyone has there own opinion and we will always have our diehard classic weapons fans.

As for 10 year old weapon's in todays maps does not even seem logical to me.

Also as your fan base grows you come to realize. it's almost always impossible to make everyone happy. I love checking these updates man your doing great!

Thanks for your support jackrabbit :-)
oh and btw i haven't forgotten man, i still have to send you those files you requested

---

Updates!

I got all that geometry in game, i need to polish it tho

* I will make the terrain texture less blurry
* I still have to add UVW mapping to the structures
* Removal of some phantom bsp's that are noticeable
* Adjustment to atmospheric fog, on both density and color
* Add some fog/cloud effects near the structures and terrain like the ones GAIGHER did in his map "With_Whiteness"





Edited by ChBgt909 on Apr 27, 2013 at 04:17 PM

Maps with custom tag sets are always played more than classic, but if your tag set isn't well balanced people will never want to play a serious match on your map. It seems like people have a pretty positive experience from your earlier tagsets, so I'd stick with custom. Map is still looking fantastic as always, really love the atmosphere and it gives off and your forerunner structures.

The structures are looking great ingame so far. Once you nail thetextures down, you'll be good

I agree, the background seems really promising so far!

When you get to the skybox (again?), I think it might be cool if you put a sheet of clouds near the bottom of the map, so that it looks like
you're playing somewhere high up in the air. Like in A50.. but more realistic and in broad daylight.
Just a thought that came to me when I looked at your screenshots :P

personally, I wouldn't use tree sprites so close to the map

how many polygons would it take to create simple trees?

timberland used em pretty close to the map. Keep in mind, he is going for optimization with beauty. TBH, I would say he is doing a wonderful job. Not to say you couldn't try it with real trees to see how much it would bog it down. Not like you can't go back to the sprites if need be, but really, I would have to see some video of how they actually show in-game along with game-play because remember, people aren't necessarily going to be going through the map saying "when I look at those trees I shudder". People should see them as what they are meant to be, peripheral details.

at the same time, they should still look like trees when you see them in game, not 2D billboards :P

True, some of those near the front too look just a wee bit odd. The ones in the far back are fine though. Maybe if he just replaced the ones that stick out the most and left the farther off ones as sprites.