So people who play maps with custom tags are casuals, you do realize that you're calling people who are still playing a 14 year old game casuals....

And for that fact also all the hard work that goes in too all these new maps and recreations and for f%%k sake in Evolve and SPV3 are also casuals, someone needs there head checked....

Did you even read what he typed? Hes saying if you are asking for custom tags purely on the basis that:
A- it will attract more players (please the masses as stunt_man says)
B- having it for the sheer fact that its a visual upgrade

...they are casuals, because a large amount of custom tag-set maps happen to have unbalanced gameplay, stemming from a lack of respect for weapon balance design and philosophy.

Sorry to continue the flame war. PopeAK, the redesigned structure looks beautiful, hope to play it soon :D

I haven't placed anything on anything. Name me one custom tagset that performs as well as the stock tagset, and don't forget to list objective reasons that justify your choice. And I never said no one will ever come close - I'm saying no one has come close yet.



Just because people have played a game for 14 years does not mean they understand it at a high level. Not everyone (myself included) is capable of grasping a game's meta from pure experience alone. I only learned about a lot of this stuff from reading about it.

So to answer your question, yes I think very many longtime players have been playing casually for a long time, and also that time alone does not make you a pro. There is much more to Halo than simply being able to shoot another player more quickly - if that's the experience you're after, Call of Duty or Counterstrike may be better suited for you.



First of all, this sentence hardly makes any sense.

Second of all, the Evolved and SPV3 projects are single player mods - weapon balance is significantly easier to do for a single player experience. Therefore, you chose a piss-poor example to prove your point.

Third of all, you seem to be either rather young or you're relatively new to this community, but as the years have gone by and project after project has been released, it's been abundantly clear that hard work DOES NOT necessarily equal good work. I could work really hard to build a house, but it would still turn out terrible because I don't know how to build a house.

My point remains: I don't believe that a custom tagset exists out there that can offer the same replayability, balance and consistency as the stock tagset, nor do I believe that one is in the works, being created by people who have the patience and skill required to accomplish such a feat.



It's not a flame-war, it's a debate. The only disrespectful thing that anyone's said is:



And the word "their" wasn't used correctly, so it should be dismissed anyway.
Edited by stunt_man on Feb 19, 2015 at 08:15 PM

I don't mind that you guys talk about whether this map should consider custom weapons vs. stocked weapons.

I actually thought about implementing a DMR. Although, the DMR would be used exactly like the pistol (Damage, scoping, range, etc...). I just always thought it was ridiculous that a pistol would be the best weapon in Halo 1. Why not convert the pistol to a rifle without affecting the classic gameplay elements? Basically, the Halo 1 pistol will have a new model; that is, a rifle. Nothing else would change.

Any thoughts about that?

As long as it fits in, I don't see why not :)

I don't see what's stopping people from ripping the map and putting whatever tags they like in it. :l

I'm in complete agreement with stunt_man. I think you should stick to the stock weapon tags, pistol model included simply because changing the model and animations of a weapon can make a surprising difference to how the weapon is perceived. I can't remember who it was but some years ago a developer talked about how they discovered that simply changing a weapon visuals could alter the players' perception of balance and how nice the weapon was to use. For example, if you replaced the pistol's model with the sniper's, it'd be functionally equivalent but relative to the pistol it'd probably feel clunky to aim.

You can argue about stock vs custom weapons but my view is that once you start replacing or making significant balance changes to the weapons, you can no longer call it the same game. Most of the players that stuck around for the multiplayer aspect did so because they enjoyed the game's balance and meta. Change the weapons, change the meta, change the game.



The vast majority of current players are casuals that don't even own a legal key. Compare that to some years back when it was abnormal not to have a key. You could happily run games on servers with CD key checking and not expect any problems. Now it's the complete opposite. It's a bunch of players that have downloaded a cracked copy of the game that just want to blast rockets around for a few hours and then they'll probably never come back. They don't particularly care how horribly balanced a map's tagset is.
Edited by Btcc22 on Feb 19, 2015 at 09:26 PM

Stick with the stock tagset. If people don't like that they can modify it all they want and try to make it better... but the best chances are with the currently best tagset out there, which is the stock vanilla one (granted, maybe some fixes like the sniper scope, AR multipurpose would be good!).

^this

The only reservation I have about changing the aesthetics of a weapon is that when players pick up a weapon that looks like another weapon they know, they tend to expect it to behave a certain way.

Personally I would prefer the stock look, but if you were to up-res some of the textures and animations, and do it really well, it could be interesting.

After seeing darksoldiers beautiful OS'd H1 cyborg, i would love to see a remastered H1 tagset with normals and better shaders. it could be like serious sam HD's visual upgrade. :3

^ I agree that a proper, tasteful "HD" remake of the stock tags (unlike the abortion that is H1 Anniversary) could be huge. As long as it doesn't require the map to be a .yelo.

When TSC:E releases you will have access to all the remade H1 assets developed for it, with matching HUD and particles etc... always an option if you want to do it and try the DMR as a replacement for the pistol.

It might be too late to put TSC:E assets in this map. You see, I plan on completing this project before 2016....

Oh you sly dog. But it's not my project so it's okay for me to laugh.

The Evolved team are certainly not casuals. They put alot of thought into their balance and gameplay.

The main designer behind SPv3 is another story however, you'd know if you've ever worked closely with him. I'm just saying to not overrate people simply because their project is popular due to good looking assets.

BUMP

new screens when

Looking good so far!

This map is really so gorgeous.

You know what amazes me is that amount of detail that went into this map.

It's truly fascinating that such a level of detail can be outlined by simply taking care of your uv's in a correct manner.

Kudo's to you brah.

This map looks like a cool arena layout.
Inb4 remake in UT4.

That's simply beautiful

Nice job.

How many triangles does this have so far ?

3

28,491

I think 50,000 triangles can be drawn per scene with the engine. Otherwise, I think you get that weird disappearing geometry effect. Since this is an indoor level, it's easier to manage and divide the level with portals.

Again, I'm not 100% knowledgeable with the halo engine or any of the HAC2 and OS features. I'm more into the level design aspect of 3ds max. If anyone has any tips or suggestions that I should consider in terms of triangle count, let me know.

Call this McDonalds buh-buh-buh-buhcause I'm lovin' it.

Where the triangle supports meet the slanted wall, add something that helps anchor them into it. At the moment it just looks like some triangles sticking out of the wall.

Looking good, though.

Could you show us a wire frame of the map? And maybe also a pic with edged faces?
Edited by The_Purrminator on Mar 24, 2015 at 10:10 AM

Yes can you release the map model too plze.