Edited by UnevenElefant5 on Jun 4, 2009 at 08:32 PM

Alright, so I'm going to sum this up.

1) You've dropped your "map protection is illegal" argument, which was blatantly wrong from the beginning.

2) You're still saying that anyone who protects a map is a selfish person with no regard to the public. Even though you haven't released a map before, you're trying to get the community to release unprotected maps, just for the benefit of others.

3) You're claiming Coldsnap, Hugeass, and Bloodgulch as examples of popular maps that are unprotected, not bothering to factor in other things.

Now, I will respond.

Have you ever considered the reasons as to why people want to protect maps? All you've said so far is that "map protection is illegal", "HEK+ itself is illegal", "you're all law-breaking". You want people to leave maps unprotected, just so that others can have the tags. Have you ever thought of the implications of leaving a map unprotected for the public? It's no big deal if you want the public to use your tags, to share them, to improve on them, and to learn from them. These are all good reasons to leave maps unprotected. However, there are many other reasons as to why people want to leave it unprotected. Some maps may have been specifically designed with a certain weapon style in mind, and the weapon style was catored to fit the map. If someone were to take that map, and mod it with other weapons, it would become less appealing. Or, if they took those weapons, and stuck them inside a Blood Gulch mod, and uploaded them, that wouldn't be interesting as well.



I lol'd. You're talking about people who think flying nuke longswords and bombing scarabs is fun. All weapons are amped up, and there are explosions everywhere. And you talk about "strategic value"? I don't know about you, but it's just so much fun to be blown up by nukes all day.

Exactly what you're doing. Forcing your opinion. Everybody here can do what they want and they don't need to be bothered by people pestering them about their decisions.

Where did bloodgulch come from...

In many ways it is about understanding the actual, not the perceived, rules of the society. I know that many do not share my view on, for the lack of a better term, open sourced game assets. This is ONLY because there currently a way to encrypt them. No other company approved map making community has this issue. In most games, game assets are open and available once given away: Period.

I have quoted/summarized the very complex copyright laws to make the point that you don’t own this stuff. You may not want to believe it but you don’t. you just get to play with it. Any idea you have about Halo is not yours to do with freely. You can’t own it. This is just the facts. Get over it and deal with it. This is the real world not some childhood fantasy. Really come on....

As for playing with it that should be a clue as to my view. Part of play is sharing, or at least it was when I went to kindergarten, and it is polite to share your play toys. These game assets are play toys. And from my perspective, which most of you just can’t have or see due to your age, it is silly to not share them. I know you can’t see that. As I said the only reason you have a choice is because no one has put their mind to decrypting the “protection”. After all if the game can still read them it CAN be decrypted.

I believe in people getting credit and accolades for what they do and good work, whether you can own it or not, deserves recognition. People who steal credit are scum of the earth. This website does all it can to see that people who do good work are recognized by the whole Halo community. Sharing what you do never takes away from your reputation for doing good work. Never! It only adds to it.

You were not here for the debate about the HEK+ application when it was being developed. Whoa boy, I had never heard such doomsday predictions all manner of predictions about “the end of Halo CE map making”, “No one will make maps” , “Halo CE will die” , “the community will disappear”,“all that will be made are bloodgulch mods” and “it will be a disaster” I was one of the few that were saying the opposite. The map making community flourished and grew 10 fold after the HEK+ release. New innovative and great maps were released , sure there are a lot of bloodgulch mods but so what, there are a lot of different sodas and TV stations to choose from too.

The fact remains that this website is proof positive that sharing assets is good for the community. The release of the Single player tags spurred more maps and even started the single player map making sub-community.

I really don’t expect you to see it; most of you can’t because you haven’t lived long enough. You can’t define yourself by what you make for the Halo CE game and “protecting” and not sharing (on your terms and time of course) game assets, that you can’t own anyway and are going to give away is not going to make you a better person or look important. From my place on the cosmic scale it just make s you look childish, But I know you can’t see it.

I wish this debate was not needed and this was like UT or Valve map making so in wrappng up: I will feature on the home page anyone who makes a workable map “unprotector” so as to end this nonsence and place Halo CE map making on par with all the other map making communities. It is the least I can do.

I lol'd big time at Lord_Lelouch's response.

1) He says that it was his "opinion" that HEK+ was illegal. Read the excerpts.












Shall I go on?

Also, you said you were leaving me to my "stupidity", when you haven't even responded. Go. Run like a coward. Don't finish this argument.




And yet, you posted so many large paragraphs where you "preached" to us, telling us that it was illegal to protect maps.
Edited by Gamma927 on Jun 4, 2009 at 09:13 PM

Zteam maps.


Eveyone should already have Bloodgulch so you can't use that as an example.


That's how it should be, but that just won't ever happen.

Yeah, no. You've taken this argument way past the point it needs to be at. Accept that people will do whatever regardless of what you think or say.

And you said it was your opinion that HEK+ was illegal. Right here, you stated that "the law was on your side", and it's "border line illegal".
Edited by Gamma927 on Jun 4, 2009 at 09:18 PM

No.

How else can I perceive the law? There are only a few laws in the world. If you have the law backing you up, it must be a government, correct?

I don't need guts, I have nothing to prove unlike most of you. I don’t have a need to impress a bunch of teenagers, hell I don’t remember how! At my age this stuff is so much silly stuff that you honestly can't believe. I enjoy the Halo CE game and being unsupported it needed a home for it to grow. I was taught to share my toys and this website is my way of sharing.

As for the law, I attempted to read your interpretations and you really need to stop trying to interpret it. It is clear beyond doubt that you have no clue what you are talking about. I have well paid lawyers who specialize in Copyright law that I use for my business and that is how I have gotten my information. I barely understand most of it and for sure your ramblings are not even close to the basics. Please for your sake stop.

Dennis, what if it's not to impress others. I would like to be able to play a map created by myself with other players when ever I want. For that to happen you would have to make that map more popular in a way. One of those ways is to protect the map after you create some sortove awsome tag that can be the icon of your map. If that icon was used in other maps it takes away at how special those tags are. It wouldn't be exclusive. (I know this is selfish but it's just how I feel and how others feel.)

BTW, I have read through a thread over at GBX of when SteelIXB was asking if he should release the app. I may not have been active in the community back then but I do have some understanding of what went down before I came.

Your example is all about impressing others, impressing them by being exclusive. "I'm cool by having the only one of these here widgets. " Good work, good maps and tags will stand on their own. Believe it or not that is what will impress people.

That thread does not cover a 10th of the exchanges which were done in private messages, but yes it gives you a feel. All of the doom and gloom predictions have been proven wrong. The perspective of time has a way of changing ideas.

In the end you are free to do what you wish. Untill technically you are not.
Edited by Dennis on Jun 4, 2009 at 10:04 PM

You word those quotes as if I want to impress others. I want my maps to impress others. Iv'e seen lots of maps that are great but rarely get played. (A handful of Arteen's maps)

Once I get back from a break (be back online in about 2 weeks to a month tops, hopefully) =P

I will have the encryption method of HEK+ figured out "to my best ability".

I will play around with it on my laptop =P.

So, I will need a programmer to help me build an application or HEK+ plugin to unprotect maps automatically; anybody up for the job? I only know a little bit of C, D, and some of Visual Basic.

You'll have no clue what you're doing.

I will keep it to finding the encryption method.
Everything else was assumption on what I might need to have done to make it easier.

If you think I do not know what I am doing, shed some light, don't be critisistic, I just want supportive feedback. (its useful, and helpful).

Note taken.

I don't blame you. if I made maps I'd want them to impress others as well. But not for superficial things like "I got the only only one of these tags and you don't nah, nah, nah". I would want them to be impressed becasue they liked the map or becasue the particular tag is a great one. Being exclusive invites people to make lower quality knock-offs that dilute the original value of the thing. People who can do it better will anyway for ther same reason you did in the first place.

As I said: good work will stand on it own without any gimicks like exclusivity.

I would say that its good to see people using your tags because every time you see them you think "Hey I created that!" and if its any good it will be used for a long time.

If the map isn't protected, why play it instead of rip it and never play it again. That's what people don't understand: the reason why you play protected maps so much is that you want everything that's in it, therefore you play it so you can use the unique items. Hugeass and Coldsnap are too freaking huge though and you really can't mod it in any specific way, which is partly why people play it so much.

Modding with HEK+ and Open Sauce was allowed when Halo Custom Edition was released by Gearbox/MS in 2006.
Edited by DarkHalo003 on Jun 6, 2009 at 09:10 AM
Edited by DarkHalo003 on Jun 6, 2009 at 09:10 AM

You're skipping the point though. You don't know anything about how the law was set up. Only if you use HCE for profit will you be in serious trouble.

People play exclusive, protected maps like CMT's because they are unique and are rarely copied. That is just one reason why people play the maps.

If this was Modacity I would +rep

K

just go +rep hunter in a random post.

Im very temped to upload the un-protector I have.

This whole argument is stupid. Let do people whatever the hell they want and don't argue about which choice is better. Just accept that people have different opinions and values than you do. If you want to be a part of this community you're gonna have to accept other people's differences.
(talking to nobody in particular here)
Edited by UnevenElefant5 on Jun 6, 2009 at 02:57 PM

Everything I put in RED is bullcrap. More Bloodgulch Mods... why do you care about those. Not many people play them and most of all you don't.
2.People will learn how to model, texture, animate, tag, etc in both cases.
3.I don't even understand what the point of this one is or what you're getting at.

What I've noticed is people have made these excuses over tiem and stuck with them just to fill in gaps of their side of the argument. For example, Bloodgulch mods, what a bull excuse that is. "O no, another BG MOD! We are all going to Die because it amkes my stuff luk bad!!!" Then people say it will help others learn. Theres proof backing up that people learn from open source and also people who go and create things from inspiration from protected maps. You can't use that as an excuse because it can go both ways.

"This [post] is full of Sooooo much crap."

Nah, he'll have my respect. And Lelouch's. Probably a few other people's, too. Programming's something not too many people tap into.

Also, my first mod was a BG mod. I created a Spartan Laser from the fuel rod. From there I've learned to tag, and I've been teaching myself model here and there.

I'm guilty of ripping tags from maps, but you can't tell me I don't know how to mod the engine. Grunt's Sandtrap weapon tags I've gotten to emulate Halo 3 as close as possible with the knowledge provided by Bungie, I've worked on various weapons (XM8, M1911A1, Mossberg 500) and gotten them in-game and tagged, getting them I want them to feel. Let's not forget my Shock Rifle.. that I used a ripped model for btw ;D
Edited by Marka Haiyana on Jun 6, 2009 at 03:11 PM

I should just upload Hek+ without the protector, and have dennis remove the previous versions.
Edited by CLS_GRUNT on Jun 6, 2009 at 03:16 PM

Martyn, you're so confused and deluded by stereotypes that you have no clue what you're saying.

1.) My first thing in CE ever was a box map, which hardly got me anywhere.

2.) It wasn't until I modded the blessed campaign that I truly got into using the HEK. I now know how to tag and adjust items in CE. I've also learned good criticism and don't act like a Nazi when someone tries to make a Blood Gulch mod.
Edited by DarkHalo003 on Jun 6, 2009 at 03:18 PM

And this post is full of soooo much win. The only valid reason for someone protecting their map is for it to be unique in a fashion that will allow it to remain a popular map (though I do not fully agree with this, as I'm more with Dennis' view that good maps stand on their own and last a long time, protected or not i.e Coldsnap) - all other points are moot.

And if Recycle Bin was to release an unprotector, majority would be content with it, as most people value sharing with the community in the hopes that some would use the acquired tags to learn while others will use it while giving credit.

Yeah, the bold, meaning Modacity, explains everything. Tell me why I'm a mindless hypocrite? You just can't get it through your ignorant and arrogant thick skull that CE isn't all about modeling. You can't do jack if you don't know your way around the Guerilla parts of HEK. Stop acting like a hypocrite yourself. When Arboreous comes out in 5 years, I'll be glad to take back my statement. Until then, knock off your spoiled child attitude and learn to cooperate with other people.

There are too many stupid posts at Modacity. I prefer to stay on this site because half of their statements are as ignorant as yours. They have nice criticism, but as far as I am concerned, they are far more immature. *Watching pronz does not make you mature.

Well whoopdie doo, you told us your life plan. How about you leave now and stop acting like you will to save us the drama and annoyance of your posts. Seriously, if I put the words "ripped content" in one sentence and they aren't accompanied by "sucks," then you lose your mind. Be mature and accept other ways of doing things. Seriously, I'm tired of telling you off.


Edited by DarkHalo003 on Jun 6, 2009 at 04:00 PM

There you go again thinking you've got a more mature point of view than everyone else. Telling us we don't "think about it" like you do. I've probably thought about it more than most. You seem to have failed to read my post on page 2, go ahead and tell me that wasn't well thought-out and logical.

Page 2. Post 50. READ IT.

Your self-righteous, narrow-minded "I'm always right you kids are stupid and wrong" attitude really, really saddens me beyond belief.




Edited by Marka Haiyana on Jun 6, 2009 at 04:26 PM
Edited by Marka Haiyana on Jun 6, 2009 at 04:27 PM