*kisses you* you are smarter then most people here ^_^
Edited by SGT Arroyo on Apr 16, 2015 at 07:37 AM

There's nothing wrong with being involved in multiple communities. I never understood why people were jumping up and down and calling Halo Online the 'CE Killer' when it's quite likely that soft mods like aimbots, vehicles and weapons are the only real things we'll see.

Never say halo ce is competitive when all server got stupid mods....

HO is going to be big just wait and see.

If you are seeing this it means I am leaving halomaps.
Edited by Super Flanker on Feb 7, 2016 at 03:36 PM

Well, im just gonna root for the Halo Online modders, since i only still play Halo Custom Edition for its single player (got tired of that weird netcode).
Edited by SpartanHex on Apr 16, 2015 at 10:37 AM

5 years later this would be me.

Edited by Caesar on Apr 16, 2015 at 10:38 AM

Ur just mad cuz Cleopatra rejected u.

Becoz Microsoft released micro-transactions instead of an editing kit.
Edited by SS Flanker on Apr 16, 2015 at 10:44 AM

Yep, and i think modded halo online will in the end be like a Halo 3 with a decent pistol and a dmr. Thats why im rooting for the modders.

I'm afraid I have a few bad tales for you.

a) If what you just stated does indeed become fruition dennis most likely will not allow any info or links pertaining to the matter to be established on this forum..

b) You may have to wait a while,

(once the official game is patched you will need to wait for a crack patch. And not to mention you will need to wait for the full retail version release date)

c) It's so illegal microsoft will water board you for just thinking about it!

a) You can discuss and see the progress the devs and community are achieving both on vg/v boards and IRC chat.

b) The game will launch this Spring, hell there is a closed beta probably coming in the next few days (still waiting for the keys). At most you'll have to wait two months more to get the full game. We have waited 8 years so you'll be fine.

c) MS can't do much, I have the feeling HO will be very big, the community will keep it growing and the progress is already being done.

ikr

New update is out, you can set primary and secondary weapons ingame now. Infection is a GO

I am proud what the community are doing..

IRC chat, not sure about assasinations since they are optional but they want to implement a toggle for sprint.

Theft of intellectual property, blatant violation of copyright laws, hacking at a program they have absolutely no rights nor paid for... all in objection of the true owners and developers of it.

I think your moral compass is off a bit.

Yes I understand it's illegal but remember this dennis, we never had halo pc for 8 years....
Edited by Caesar on Apr 16, 2015 at 08:56 PM

We've had halo pc for 8 years. We still have Halo pc. What website do you think you're on?

But we have Halo CE, we almost have done what they do every year and we made it with an 14 years old engine, this is awesome and they just broke up a game, you're just hype but don't even know how to differentiate what is a good job and what was stolen.

using this logic because I have never had a Porsche 911 I should go steal one and modify it. Excuses for theft of a luxury item are just excuses.

Don't kid yourself that there is some kind of moral justification. There isn't.

Someone join me on HO got server up.

Yes they in fact can, but, you know... Keep doing what you guys are doing... I'll let you figure that out yourself.

He has a slight point though. The game has gotten leaked and MS did far too little too late to cover up.

They could bring out the lawsuits but it really won't do much.

Right you are.

For the sake of argument: Even if that were true, which is isn't, that still does not constitute a moral right to steal someone's intellectual property and hack at their software. Those who are doing so are both legally and morally wrong.

Cease and Desist from microsoft, Don't follow that, they Sue you, Fine, Probably Jailtime too since this is technically Piracy.

Stealing is wrong in general. But comparing the theft of an object that is created from physical resources is different as compared to stealing software that is copied and replicated from literally nothing. You can argue that you are stealing from the labor costs that are put into coding the software, which is valid.

But that is none of my business.

well in my case since i live about an hour and forty minutes from 343 and microsoft their legal team could pay my house a visit XD

but most likely nothing will happen. microsoft is too late to do anything at this point...

but ill be the first to admit we completely shot ourselves in the foot here. by taking the game "pirating" it and hacking it up within 2 weeks of its announcement we have given microsoft every reason to give pc the middle finger and move on....

we can always hope that macro$oft will just see it how it is, a bunch of halo fans who have waitied so long for a new pc halo game that excitement overtook them, but thats absolutely not going to happen. we are talking about one of the kings of capatalisim, they arent going to think "rationally".
Edited by killzone64 on Apr 17, 2015 at 01:16 AM

According to your stated viewpoint, patent and copyright law is invalid because there is no physical resources in the creation of an idea and therefore they should not have the same protections as a say a car or a brick.

This viewpoint then negates copyrights for all modern publishing since books and magazines are now published electronically so therefore would, according to your view, have less value and therefore less protections now that they do not require paper.

Intellectual property laws were put in place, globally, to protect against the very idea you are espousing.

Keep in mind that we are not talking about a morally ambivalent concept of someone stealing food to survive. We are talking about stealing a luxury item because they want to play a game.

That is theft of intellectual property and a blatant violation of copyright laws. Hacking at a software program that the person has no rights to can not be and is not justified by any socially acceptable society.



You were good up to here...

May be a bit offtopic but, how does that apply to free content, then?

There is an interesting discussion about morals and ethics within all of this. In particular, the idea that hacking into software is "immoral" is particularly interesting.

Some people, like our one and only Dennis, seem see this situation in a straight forward manner: Hacking is illegal, and therefore anyone who is partaking in it must be morally and ethically bankrupt.

Other people, like a number of the users here, seem to see the issue quite differently. They care not about the legality of the situation, and only see hacking as a harmless means to an end, and the people who participate in it are not breaking any moral code.

So, by looking at the two different views, we can see that key contention here appears to be weather or not something being illegal automaticly makes something immoral. Now, there are some obvious cases that most people will see as the law and their morals being in alignment. For example, almost everyone will agree that a law that states that murder is illegal is also ethical. However, others will disagree on weather or not breaking a law is immoral. For instance, some countries, such as Saudi Arabia, have bans on women driving (World Report 2014 - Saudi Arabia, 2013). Many people, particularly westerners, would not see breaking this law as being moralaly wrong, in fact, many would see this as the right thing to do. Therefore, it is possible that breaking a law, in some cases, may actually be morally permissible.

Now, lets look specifically at whether or not the people who have modified a leaked build of Halo: Online are immoral in their actions. Fristly, at least in countires like the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia, their actions are most certainly illegal (Greenberg, 2015). However, weather or not these people are immoral or unethical is another issue entirely. Depending on what ethical code you subscribe to, this issue has a number of answers. A utilitarian, for instance, would believe that modifying the code of a piece of software, particularly a free one, would be morally sound, as the company would loose nothing from the changes and people would benefit from the changes, therefore causing the greatest good for the greatest number. A person who subscribes to Natural law theory, however, would likely not even see the situation as an ethical dilemma, as, in nature, reverse engineering and modification is a staple of nature. An Idealist, however, would likely is a person who modifies the software as being fundamentally wrong.

Personally, I believe that the the people who are modifying this leaked build are not morally bankrupt. However, I also do not believe that they are the second coming of Christ/ 15th coming of the Dalai Lama / the next best StarCraft2 Korean player. While, I see the potential of the content that they are creating/modifying to be exciting, I also still am holding out hope for Halo: Online proper. We do not know the extent of the microtransations or what effect they will have on gameplay. We do not know whether the game will be modified before it reaches western markets. We do not know anything, really, and I still hold out hope. If Halo: Online goes south, I will likely just go and play some other FPS to fill the void, such as Quake Live, CS:GO or even the dreaded Call Of Duty. PC gaming is an extremely large and varied space, and I feel that I don't need to resort to playing a buggy modified version of a F2P game that will eventually come out anyway. Realistikly, I don't even play early assess games anyway, why would I want to play a game that hasn't even been pushed out prematurely by official sources.

So the moral of the story is:

• Everyone has their own option


• Hacking, while illegal, is not always morally wrong


• PC gaming is a large space, so even if Halo : Online is the next Dungeon Keeper: Mobile, its not the end of the world

Reference List

World Report 2014 - Saudi Arabia. (2013). Retrieved 14/04/2015, fromhttp://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/saudi-arabia

Greenber, P. (2015). Computer Crime Statutes. Retrieved 14/04/2015, from http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/computer-hacking-and-unauthorized-access-laws.aspx

No, he's saying it because muh precious morality, M$ please don't shut down muh HaloMaps, nobody has ever, ever hacked a game before.

Dennis, sometimes I despair for you.

You have mis-characterized my position. Nonetheless...

Thank you for making my point for me. Halo Online is "free to play" software. It is not free software. The people hacking the software were/are taking pride in removing the micro-transaction portion of the software thereby depriving the copyright holder and rightful owner of a revenue stream. This then is the very definition of theft of services.

Yes, Yes. I'm well aware of patents. I was just making a comparison of tangible objects vs intangible objects. In no way shape or form am I siding with pirating or theft of property. But I do appreciate the fact that you clarified my point. Sorry if it seemed as if I was saying 'stealing software that is copied and replicated from literally nothing' was some sort of excuse towards the pirating and modification of non open sourced software.

They weren't. You've just read some misrepresentation in gaming media.

Ignoring the fact that the modders are more interested in the engine than in the game, server emulation is a bit of a grey area. Emulators that have action taken against them are typically those that are used to bypass DRM schemes (in the US, at least), use leaked server code/binaries or solicit donations despite using copyrighted material. Most will shutter at a cease and desist without action progressing further.

There are plenty of well-established server emulators that publishers haven't attempted to touch, likely because they know that victory isn't guaranteed.
Edited by Btcc22 on Apr 17, 2015 at 02:44 PM