the pot calling the kettle black

But it is. I thought you would understand since you also supposedly have taken a computer science education. However you just appear to want to feel grand about yourself in the programming aspect, so you enjoy belittling other beginning programmers.

You know that that's all there is behind your posts here, you don't care about halomaps nor about being helpful to other people. Even now all you do is say stuff like "if you're not some known person in the modacity community, you won't get anything I make". But hey, good for you Shady, good for you.

Disappointing to see that the social skills of ShadowSpartan have not changed one bit.

Why are they fighting about this?

QFT Best honest post on here.

"In red" Thats all it's about.

I have noticed over time everytime something comes out related to programming,a zteam member pops out someones ass.

Always expect to be disappointed coming here to see a change in behavior.

It's because they feel threatened in that they are losing/have lost their spot at the "top" of creating halo ce apps. There's actually other people taking over the torch, people that actually release things!

I can imagine for them this must be a most shocking development.

So, you're saying that this is a reaction to the loss of attention?




This would mean absolutely nothing to me.

Can't they at least settle this in a civilized way without the name-calling, insults, and other profane multi-purpose attacks?

Seriously, this arguing is just like how little kids behave. Is it really worthy fighting about?

Thx gravemind, i was able to extract the water stains decals from the level the covenant and i'm gonna use them for my map Core
... what an interesting argument if you can count it as one lol, just chill it's just a game
Edited by ChBgt909 on Aug 22, 2012 at 04:07 PM

My point exactly.

Surprised this isn't locked already, lmfao

I tried to give him advice on how to go about it, but he doesn't want to figure stuff out on his own, he wants someone to hand it to him. That is not belittlement. And no, going around and begging people for code is not programming, which is what that statement was referencing.


You started attacking first and I defended myself. In my initial post I said that the best way to learn was from figuring stuff out yourself, not having people hand it to you like he was wanting. The other thing I stated was that no one was going to hand it to him if he hasn't done much in the community, or has no reputation, which is common sense to me but I guess its not to others.


Well, that's the stupidest thing I've seen on this forum in quite a while. I do not feel threatened, nor do I have anything to prove to a bunch of childish idiots on this forum, and that includes yourself. The only reason I do Halo stuff is because I enjoy working on it and learning from it, none of which has been handed to me on a silver platter. The childish behavior of this forum just further reinforces why I have hardly ever released anything publicly.

I was trying to use this program, but for some reason, trying to open anything halo 3 ODST related ends up giving me some sort unhandeled exception, which is weird because the original adjustant worked perfectly with the same files.

By the way, before you go on to trying to make sound work, think you can make the model extraction methods work better? i've been trying to get the H3 ODST Playermodel, but using Adjustant, Extraction, and Alteration gives me a lot of missing permutations. I know that if you used the Alteration Custom Edition it'd work, but nobody is willing to allow me to use it (Within reason, i'm a nobody here anyways).

Shadow you gave him no advice at all. You only told him he could not have anything to help him.
I didn't attack YOU, I simply stated your post wasn't helpful in any way, and that you just wanted to feel grand about yourself by stating that only the "elite" can have "nice things".

Your social skills aren't very good though, I know it, you know it. You always try to belittle people, and you do not handle criticism towards your sloppy posts well.

I recommend you find yourself a nice elite site where you can actually help people out because they are "worth helping" in your opinion.

No, I told him that the best way to learn was to do it yourself, not have someone hand it to you, which is what people call advice.


Yeah, that is an attack. I offered advice, and you focused on one aspect of my post and blew it out of proportion. What I said is true, normally people do not give out their information/maps/tags/etc to some unknown person. You might do that, but any normal person will not. It is not about being in the "elite", it is about trusting people and having a reputation so that people will share with you.


My social skills? Maybe you should look in the mirror. I do not belittle people, you are the one who anytime I make a post, you have to show up and make an ass of yourself and cause an argument. You will never change, it's like talking to a brick wall with you. You have your view of me, and obviously that will never change.

1. Why do you feel the need to keep tags from the community and degrade it (even if they are already at a low standard) to the point of "I have the tagz" threads.

2. I like numbers too.

.

Much like Gamer_kid, halomaps google and halo sound extraction is the only way your gonna know- oh wait you can't use google. Since I have to spell it out for you as you didn't catch on. Your typing is almost illegible, try re-reading it like they teach you in kindergarten.



Oh god, my egoo, nooo stop! please it hurts. Oh your not talking about me, kay. Bring down the statues. Let's go light kornman's shack on fire.

L0dex or TM_updates, w/e trying to hide your shame as the prick of halomaps. I'm not trying to belittle you, take it as a compliment that it's not prick of modacity (where this hell spawn originated from). I laugh each time you post as it's just full of hypocrisy. All this talk about helping people is just a curtain to hide your dagger. Yes I maybe a wall, by that means I stick to my opinions. Your silver tongue can't lick this wall.

When does it exception? It works fine for me.

If you had any people skills you would know that not everyone can figure out everything for themselves, some people need more guidance than others. Normal people are willing to help others out with this.

And no, that is not an attack. That is merely how you perceive criticism on your sloppy post. Nothing was blown out of proportion, your post was not helpful at all. I also don't see why you are implying I give out my work to unknown people, I do not. It's also irrelevant, you do not need to hand out the exact solution to help people, you can provide snippets and they can take it from there.

And your social skills are simply lacking as you show time and time again. If you would act normal and bother to help people instead of immediately belittling them as not good enough for your help, then I would treat you with the respect that a helpful person deserves.

Clearly you feel this is an attack to your personality, and once again it is not. I am simply stating that you are not helping anybody and that you consider other people unworthy of your help, as you have stated yourself.

I hope you finally mature and will realise that your closed off attitude will get you nowhere. Try reaching out a helping hand for once, it feels nice.

ITT: butthurt. So much butthurt.
Gravemind, is it just me or does the app keep telling me there's an update and sending me to the download page again? Either you're pooping out updates like you've just eaten bad sushi or something's wrong here.

Re-download the zip in the OP and that should fix it.

Don't think I forgot about you, I saved something special for you. Say hello to my little friend.



Is this not knowledge you did not know or do you not acknowledge it as knowledge because you can't interpret it ?

I know that not everyone can figure stuff out themselves. But like I said, the best way to learn is to try and do it yourself, which he has not even attempted to do for animations/bsps/sounds. He wanted someone to give it to him, rather than at least attempt to try and figure it out. It's like if you go to a professor for help on a homework problem, but you have not done any work on it. The professor is not likely to help you as you have not put forth any effort into figuring it out yourself. That same concept applies in this situation, but you are too stubborn to see that I suppose.

I help people all the time as a matter of fact, but it's whenever they have actually put forth some effort, or its someone that I can trust with the work I've done and will use it responsibly. Lodex, you are the one who needs to mature, as you have not changed one bit over the years.


Actually, the two games are very similar, and Gravemind was talking about possibly supporting Reach Beta by using other people's code (proving my point even more). So the information is indeed relevant.

I'm going to jump in here and give my opinion after reading.

Shadow spartan, you sound like an ass talking to others (I didnt see you give any actual helpful information, other than just say "thats not programming", do it yourself), and if you do have the tools to make sound extraction possible, why not help out the rest of us who do not wish to dwelve deep into the realm of programming to make it happen? A lot of us focus on lots of other aspects of game creation, for example, I focus on level design and environments more than anything and have had lots of experience. I've also written tutorials myself and left creations I've helped build and make open to the public so people are free to expand and learn from them.

Sprinkle, if you have been around this community long enough you will know that ZTeam does not share alot of tags, however their members that use to be on the team (or still are) are very knowledgeable in extraction, but yet, hardly share the tools they use to do so. They also dont share the tags they have extracted either, except in .map files that are protected, and even then, the only maps they released are from years ago. The quote above that you posted does not contribute to anything at hand, such as the program Gravemind or the other functions he wanted to put into the app. All it says is "Learn yourself". This a really dumb thing. It's like saying, go learn to read, write, compute equations, etc all by yourself. Throughout school you have people teach you and help and you expand on that, there is no difference here except that "teacher" is just some person who holds their knowledge to themselves.

Knowledge is meant to be shared, I don't see why some cannot see that. It's a very precious thing to some, but sharing can help spread understanding of it and also spread appreciation for those who helped discover and understand it in the first place.

I don't? I've released more things than most on this forum, advocated for the open sourceness of the CMT mod, not to mention my role in HEK+ and HTC being released with CE map compatibility enabled.

Telling someone to attempt to figure something out themselves, whenever they are wanting to learn more about a particular subject is not helpful information? Why should anyone spend loads amount of their time teaching someone, or give up the hard work that they have poured a lot of time into, whenever that person does not even attempt to do it themselves at least once? That is what it boils down to. If you put forth no effort, you shouldn't receive anything.

I haven't released extraction tools for a couple of reasons. If they were released, there would be a lot more use of ripped content. I would much rather have the community learn and become talented by modeling/animating/texturing/etc their own content rather than relying on content used in the other Halo games. You won't learn that way. While Zteam did use ripped content in the maps, we did it because we were a small team, and we wanted to use the knowledge we had gained by researching the various Halo games. We wanted to replicate the experience of that game as close as possible so that people would enjoy them.

If thats the way you view teaching, you are horribly mistaken. You should be a guide, nothing more, but also encouraging, and I see none of any of that. You force the person to work themselves on their own projects, but you give assistance when stuck or need help when not understanding something. Dont just say "Do it yourself", thats about as helpful as not saying anything at all. I've had a few 'mentors' in the past, for example Lodex and Il Duce Primo and I learned ALOT of valuable information and criticism to improve my work without them having to hold my hand the entire way through.

Secondly, that is the most retarded thing I've heard and sounds like their is no logical thinking in it. If people are going to rip, they are going to rip. There are plenty of programs to do so besides ones you have not released. The people who are creative are going to make their own assets and be inspired by others, and they will not rip and will continue to be creative. It depends on the person. If people are determined on making Halo 3 in Halo 1, they will rip assets and do it. There are programs to bypass protection and extract from Halo 2 - Reach. Personally, I would love to see a sound extraction tool for Halo 3 because their is plenty of sounds in the map files NOT included on the OST and I would like to be able to listen to them and even possibly include them in other projects for example, along with others.

Lastly, you are being very ironic in the last post. There is plenty of knowledge to still learn from using ripped content and putting it through your own animations and tag work (for basic users, at least). Of all people, the ZTeam people should know that. It's worth alot more when you have something to put ingame that has no previous importation. You can look at the assault rifle tags and look at all the variables, but you will never really understand them unless you start tweaking them. It's great to take a brand new weapon thats not in Halo, for example, the Brute Shot, and completely make your own tags and mess with the variables to see how they work and create desired outcomes.
Edited by Higuy on Aug 22, 2012 at 09:26 PM

I'm going to hate myself for this...

I hate to join the fray, and I'm not taking sides here ShadowSpartan, but I just can't help but point out... people have been trying to keep their tags to themselves, trying to encourage custom content, since the dawn of CE. Yet, all I ever see is Halo 2, 3, and Reach wannabe tags by people who are obviously not professionals and can't match up to Bungie's original work. I've very rarely seen actual custom content that came from an original idea, rather than trying to imitate other games' ideas. Keeping the things from those games you do have from people doesn't encourage customized content, it only makes the amateur impressions worse, because as I said before, almost nobody in the CE community can be labelled as a professional save a select few, making the quality of their impressions to be at poop-tier. I agree with you to a point about people trying to make things themselves, and almost always, a person knows something much better when he KNOWS what he's working with. But I watched Gravemind slave over this thing for months, trying to figure out why this code was faulty, how the bitmap extractor worked, how the UI could be organized better, what improvements he could make over existing code, learning a new freakin' language by trying to jump into the pool and learn to swim. A programmer doesn't have to learn how to build a computer, write a kernel, write an OS, then build a compiler for the OS, and make all of its software, just to be a good programmer, or to even be considered a programmer. Information and data are now being used as substitutes for royalty titles and privilege. The very argument you're trying to make is only bound to reciprocate by producing the opposite effect.

Back on topic now.
Thanks Gravemind, I re-downloaded and it worked fine; no problems thus far, but I'll try to get my hands on an ODST map to see if I get this exception.
Also, I suggest just making an "Open" file option in the File menu. Having both New and Open is kind of redundant.

I know it seems kinda redundant, but they each have their own purpose. "New" will open any map in a new tab, whereas "Open" will open any map in the current tab, first closing the current map file.
Edited by Gravemind on Aug 22, 2012 at 09:29 PM

How can you be a guide whenever someone does not put forth the effort towards accomplishing a goal? You cannot expect someone to hand you everything for nothing.


I know that there are programs out there, and people are still going to rip no matter what. But obviously the programs have loads of problems or else people wouldn't still be complaining about Zteam never releasing our applications, so I am not going to contribute to making it easier.


While I do agree that there is a lot of knowledge that can be learned from extracted assets, a lot can also be learned from tinkering with the existing stuff yourself, or creating your own as I said before. How can you learn to animate whenever you just extract an animation? How can you learn to texture when all you ever do is extract bitmaps? I know that in some cases using extracted assets is inevitable, but it should never be used all the time. I do agree about your Brute Shot example, that is one good example of how starting with a model and getting it ingame yourself, learning to animate it, tagging it, etc. If I saw more of that, then maybe I would change my point of view.

Thankfully my teachers didnt just tell me to figure it out myself. That seems lazy to me, take the time to actually help, and expect nothing in return, thats how it is done.

People complain not about programs, but about tags like the FP Legs or lots of other things CAD has created under the ZTeam name without releasing them or, at the very least, giving any insight into the creation of the tags and leaving out alot of other people that were inspired by them in the dark. Sharing knowledge contributes to the creation of more assets by building ontop of it.

Anyway, once again, the thing I would like to see is sound extraction. It would be a very handy tool for getting the source music and some of the sound effects. Not everyone is a very good sound creator or has the necessary tools to make their own.

im with higuy, the point of having a community is to collaborate and share. those members who are most admired and remembered are those who share their work.

Even rippers get remembered and admired,to a limited extent.

Well,is there any way to import enf's to gmax?

This thread seems like it's in need of- ..... "THE ARGUMENT STOPPER!!"
Meh, you guys are just going to hate me for this, so I'm just going to sit this one out...