Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
Well Happy New Year to everyone! As you know i am EmmanuelCD, and this time im working on a new Firefight map. Right now im making the bsp, it has issues with lightmaps but take a look:

http://i64.tinypic.com/2jbmjhl.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/zk28fc.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/zjh2so.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/20rsowl.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/34ta51s.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2lc2q6s.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2dc8ver.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2vwy06g.jpg

The intention of this map is to make it feel like Halo Reach. It will have a Reach tagset, both weapons and bipeds. It will be done in 2 months.

Quote: --- Original message by: Mangenkyo
This looks nice! Keep up the good work!

Quote: --- Original message by: ThatGuyWhoLikesCats
If you plan on having gameplay largely taking place on the ground I would suggest adding cover such as barricades and maybe things like craters in the ground so gameplay doesn't revolve around running behind buildings to recover from damage, these kinds of things can ruin pace. Some of those trees also sprout from areas where there is no dirt/natural surface to be seen. The map itself looks like an artificial island in the middle of nowhere. Perhaps an (inaccessible) bridge leading towards a large city in the background would work? (A similar concept to this was done with Mombasa and the Space Elevator in ODST, with the Elevator being on it's own artificial island)

tl;dr version:
The map looks solid at this point.

Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
It looks pretty cool but it also feels like this wasn't all down to your modelling skills.

And if it was I apologize in advance.

Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
It looks pretty cool but it also feels like this wasn't all down to your modelling skills.

And if it was I apologize in advance.

Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
I have the time to make the layout of the level

http://i65.tinypic.com/5u0ps2.jpg

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar


Friendly respawn? AI doesn't sync in MP.

Quote: --- Original message by: lockeowns
wtf? He didn't said a word about halo online in your thread...

Quote: --- Original message by: Cortana
@caesar

Who cares about halo online? How is that creative? What does that enable you to do? Nothing.Sure you can import models, but thats it. You can't do new animations, you can't do new collision (although I imagine that won't be hard to figure out), you can't do physics. So the models are worthless unless you care about trying to improve the graphics of what is already an extremely pretty game.I suppose you may have a better idea of what the final release will contain since you guys supposedly jacked that source code off that server. But newsflash, the real creatives will have no interest in manipulating the crap out of a game if they can't create their own content. You'll never be able to match the bar set by UE4, Cry engine, and Unity as far as a game used as a development base, which is what people want from a "Custom Edition".I am aware you lost the networking LAN code and the old UIs. But I still believe your efforts would be better spent finding ways to prepare to manipulate later builds of the game. The official game should be your greatest tool, and not your enemy. When the final game is out, you should have an enormous player base. If you can create a way to capture that population through whatever means, well that will certainly be better than having to download some add-on for an ancient build of the game not readily or easily accessible to the public. And when the final game is out, it will only get harder for people to track down the leaked alpha, unless you guys yourself plan to distribute it.I waste my time with a 14 year old engine because it provides us with all the tools we need to make a Halo game. I've seen Halo mods running in Cryengine, UE3, and Unity, and they all suffer from not having the basics that make a Halo game possible. Games don't become popular because they are pretty or modern, they become popular because they are fun. The excitement for MCC is proof of that and the demand for it on PC. IF there was an engine that would be easier to do what we do other than H1, I'd gladly jump on it. But right now you have a game more crippled than H2V as far as I can see. But let me know when you have the scenario tags mapped out and a scenario editor with real power that isn't forge.



and for the record, I never said you as individuals are worthless, I am sure you are all very talented. But your project is already doomed as far as I see and therefore the time and effort you are putting in is in fact, for nothing.

Perhaps if you actually reached out to people who make content in CE, and understood the needs to get those people over to making Dewrito a viable platform for development, you'd better understand things. In the end, you may very well provide a set of tools to create content, and when you do you are going to want people like us working with it, as it's going to be map and mod developers who create the things that are going to/would make Dewrito popular

Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
What have i done...
i dont have nothing against HO, and leave Ceasar alone, he didnt anything about HO. Ist unecesary to post that information we all know. Please, i dont want this comunity mreak up more than its already.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Omg i didnt even said anything about halo online and there is you pointing fingers at me. The question is who the hell are u? And second why do u people are so against halo online like altis, masterz and many others? Is it because it scares you that it is a halo 3 engine? Well the truth is we can create something at least and i blame you for bringing this up.

Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
STOP SPAMMINGG MY THREAD!!!!!!!

Quote: --- Original message by: Spartan314
Ignore him.

Quote: --- Original message by: Cortana

@caesar

I am not a supporter of El Dewrito never think that because your halo online eldorito is crap and halo ce is better because of netcode and many others, and I scoff at the idea that it could ever rival Custom Edition. I see halo online devs coming in here like dany, personality, emoose, shockfire and tillice saying halo ce community are starting this flame war, wtf you, argh the devs of eldorito need to stop causing choas, have some faith! We've done amazing things! You don't know what you are talking about! Get that all out now and listen to what I have to say. After all, if this crappy eldorito does have the ability to be even close to what we can do in CE, you are going to need people like modders and the team. You can have all the tools and capabilities you want, but without artists and designers, you can't really do much with it.Yes, I have very little faith in Dewrito, but it's not because I want to see it fail or dislike the idea, it's because I don't believe its possible for it to be that good. I'd love to be proven wrong, and this is why I am going to explain to you all exactly, what needs to be done for this to be a viable platform for development. It is silly to have such a divide between the Custom Edition community and Dewrito. In the end, we in CE would love a newer Halo engine, and Dewrito wants to have the same devoted and creative community that a 12 year old game has.For me, these are the things that need to be addressed, not behind closed doors, but publicly if you are to be successful. I will also include the things I have seen behind our own closed doors as avenues to solve these obstacles.Mod distribution system: As it stands, all of H:O's assets and tags are stored in single containers as you know. The problem with this is that you can't modify one thing without changing the entire game. Even something as simple as a balance patch needs this. I have heard swapping the files out and rebooting the game is being considered... it's crude but it sounds like it would work. The sooner you get this done, the sooner people can really start to dabble in creating a custom experience. There is more than enough content in H:O to be tweaked and played with... which brings me to my next point.Real custom content: H:O literally has every asset you could want in a Halo game. If you want to re-arange and edit values of things, you could easily do an ODST mod. If you want to replicate any of the main games, you could easily. H4 of course has Promethian weapons, and Reach made huge changes to the weapon tags to allow many of their new functions. But the content is pretty much all there. But real creatives don't strive to just make replicas and ports of existing content and ideas. Dewrito needs to appeal to those who want to create things new that people haven't seen before. There are 2 groups you need to appeal too, those who want to create maps, and those who want to create content.Map developers need to be fully able to create a map in max, create their new shaders, find or create an appropriate sky, set up portals (portals allow you to control what is being rendered at a given moment), set up instance geometry (fancy way of getting the most performance with a single object placed multiple times), render lightmaps, populate the map (forge is not an option since it does not allow anything for decorators, sound environments, device machines, invisible collision, and more, but I will explain that in a later point). Perhaps building maps in H2V and converting them to H3 would be a good place to look, although you are still somewhat screwed when it comes to lighting. There is nothing in H:O that would even begin to allow this, a proper importer derived from Bungies tool.exe is mandatory.When it comes to content, you guys can already import models. Okay, but that only allows you to make visual changes. Truth be told, no one really gives a damn.CE is a 10 year old game that can't even rival H2's graphics, MCC had people hyped to play H1 and H2 online, H3 as never regarded as a graphical powerhouse for that generation, and most people find the H5 redesigns ugly yet are hyped anyway. The games that had people dropping their jaws were Reach and H4... and those are regarded as to having the worst gameplay. Yeah H1 was hailed in it's day as far as graphics go, but it was a launch title on a next gen system at the time. My point is, no one really care how a Halo game looks, what matters is how it plays, and importing a new render model won't change your overall enjoyment of the game. What would change your enjoyment, is things that are actually new. Perhaps you'd like to pilot a Sparrowhawk, or create a new class of Promethian weapons. Maybe you'd like to have environments become destroyable again like H2. Or have an entire new character. Any of this requires 4 things. A render model, a collision model, animations, and havoc based physics. And they all need to be designed to work in tandem. Having models that be be ingamed but being unable to give them a collision or have them unanimated isn't a solution. Even having the ability to do this, means to truly make something that is new an unique means having a full tag editor. Now, I have seen tags be properly converted over from H1-> H2 and H2-> H1. If you can replicate that work that was done, you should be able to allow people to create using the official H1 tools, import into H2 which is much closer in structure to H3, and then into the tag resources for dewrito.Tag editor: There has to be a fully featured tag editor. We would need to manage all our content, not just edit things that currently exist in the map. And we need access to EVERYTHING. Even down to the particle point physics, the global files controls, the shaders, the bipeds, the vehicles, the physics even the bitmap tags so we can chose what settings we want them compiled with. Even assembly fails at mapping everything it, it's one of the main reasons I have not even bothered trying to mod H2V's campaign. The only 2 tag editors that meet the standards required for custom content, are the H1 and H2 versions of guerilla (the latter once fully unlocked of course).Campaign support: You may say this is a novelty, for a small group of people. But campaign is a place where literally you can do anything you desire. You can make firefight out of it, you could do what the SPV3 project is doing for H1, you could recreate another Halo game inside it and have fully customization over anything you wanted. You can create crazy weapons enemies, the possibilities are endless. But this literally requires access to every nook and cranny of the game. No one wants to jump into a multiplayer map and suddenly be hit by a whole new world of rules and weapon balance that they don't understand. Even in CE's past, there have been few custom maps with customized weapons that have had a long lasting appeal due to being properly designed. I am lucky enough to have had several, but being able to enter a world and learn the rules playing various difficulties, where anything can happen, thats the true appeal to custom tags and assets.H3 Forge is not a viable creation tool: I talked about this earlier, but no one from CE or from another engine wants to use forge. It's clunky, and it doesn't allow access to features that are needed. they can't be added in, and even if they could, it would be agonizing to do. Back in the Halo PC days we had spark edit, which was far more capable than forge was. So looking to forge as part of the solution is actually part of the problem, if I have to us forge and doing the things I need to take 5x longer than it would do in sapien, I'm not going to want to use it.Propper debug tools: Wether it be sapien bitching to me about my script errors, tool telling me how close I am to hitting a memory limit, guerilla detailing what each field I am using does, or warning me if a value is improper, or being able to view my portals in sapien to see how much is being rendered in a given scene, they are all necessary annoyances. Professional grade content means professional grade tools, and professional ways of debugging them that isn't stabbing blindly in the dark.I will probably update this later as more things come to mind, but I make this post on this communities behalf, so you know what we see as needed to make this game an alternative. I know some people here simply don't give a crap, and just want halo 3 on the PC. But guess what? This game will never be successful if it just replicates a 8 year old game. Sure you will have a crowd, but Halo fans in general will look at it and ask why they'd want to play it.So get past your anger, your defensiveness towards this game, and took a good hard look at the cold reality of what you need to do if you want dewrito to not be a flash in the pan. Because until you can address these concerns (and then some), I and the rest of my community will continue to view el dewrito as well... worthless, and not something we should concern our time with when there are plenty of other platforms to work on.Edit: Looks like it won't let me separate my point 2 into multiple paragraphs, if one of the mods can fix this I'd appreciate it, I have this post backed up in case you accidentally make a change you cant. Dany need to stop his crap and tell his best pal to stop this choas.
Edited by Cortana on Jan 2, 2016 at 09:15 PM

Quote: --- Original message by: Cortana

@caesar

I am not a supporter of El Dewrito never think that because your halo online eldorito is crap and halo ce is better because of netcode and many others, and I scoff at the idea that it could ever rival Custom Edition. I see halo online devs coming in here like dany, personality, emoose, shockfire and tillice saying halo ce community are starting this flame war, wtf you, argh the devs of eldorito need to stop causing choas, have some faith! We've done amazing things! You don't know what you are talking about! Get that all out now and listen to what I have to say. After all, if this crappy eldorito does have the ability to be even close to what we can do in CE, you are going to need people like modders and the team. You can have all the tools and capabilities you want, but without artists and designers, you can't really do much with it.Yes, I have very little faith in Dewrito, but it's not because I want to see it fail or dislike the idea, it's because I don't believe its possible for it to be that good. I'd love to be proven wrong, and this is why I am going to explain to you all exactly, what needs to be done for this to be a viable platform for development. It is silly to have such a divide between the Custom Edition community and Dewrito. In the end, we in CE would love a newer Halo engine, and Dewrito wants to have the same devoted and creative community that a 12 year old game has.For me, these are the things that need to be addressed, not behind closed doors, but publicly if you are to be successful. I will also include the things I have seen behind our own closed doors as avenues to solve these obstacles.Mod distribution system: As it stands, all of H:O's assets and tags are stored in single containers as you know. The problem with this is that you can't modify one thing without changing the entire game. Even something as simple as a balance patch needs this. I have heard swapping the files out and rebooting the game is being considered... it's crude but it sounds like it would work. The sooner you get this done, the sooner people can really start to dabble in creating a custom experience. There is more than enough content in H:O to be tweaked and played with... which brings me to my next point.Real custom content: H:O literally has every asset you could want in a Halo game. If you want to re-arange and edit values of things, you could easily do an ODST mod. If you want to replicate any of the main games, you could easily. H4 of course has Promethian weapons, and Reach made huge changes to the weapon tags to allow many of their new functions. But the content is pretty much all there. But real creatives don't strive to just make replicas and ports of existing content and ideas. Dewrito needs to appeal to those who want to create things new that people haven't seen before. There are 2 groups you need to appeal too, those who want to create maps, and those who want to create content.Map developers need to be fully able to create a map in max, create their new shaders, find or create an appropriate sky, set up portals (portals allow you to control what is being rendered at a given moment), set up instance geometry (fancy way of getting the most performance with a single object placed multiple times), render lightmaps, populate the map (forge is not an option since it does not allow anything for decorators, sound environments, device machines, invisible collision, and more, but I will explain that in a later point). Perhaps building maps in H2V and converting them to H3 would be a good place to look, although you are still somewhat screwed when it comes to lighting. There is nothing in H:O that would even begin to allow this, a proper importer derived from Bungies tool.exe is mandatory.When it comes to content, you guys can already import models. Okay, but that only allows you to make visual changes. Truth be told, no one really gives a damn.CE is a 10 year old game that can't even rival H2's graphics, MCC had people hyped to play H1 and H2 online, H3 as never regarded as a graphical powerhouse for that generation, and most people find the H5 redesigns ugly yet are hyped anyway. The games that had people dropping their jaws were Reach and H4... and those are regarded as to having the worst gameplay. Yeah H1 was hailed in it's day as far as graphics go, but it was a launch title on a next gen system at the time. My point is, no one really care how a Halo game looks, what matters is how it plays, and importing a new render model won't change your overall enjoyment of the game. What would change your enjoyment, is things that are actually new. Perhaps you'd like to pilot a Sparrowhawk, or create a new class of Promethian weapons. Maybe you'd like to have environments become destroyable again like H2. Or have an entire new character. Any of this requires 4 things. A render model, a collision model, animations, and havoc based physics. And they all need to be designed to work in tandem. Having models that be be ingamed but being unable to give them a collision or have them unanimated isn't a solution. Even having the ability to do this, means to truly make something that is new an unique means having a full tag editor. Now, I have seen tags be properly converted over from H1-> H2 and H2-> H1. If you can replicate that work that was done, you should be able to allow people to create using the official H1 tools, import into H2 which is much closer in structure to H3, and then into the tag resources for dewrito.Tag editor: There has to be a fully featured tag editor. We would need to manage all our content, not just edit things that currently exist in the map. And we need access to EVERYTHING. Even down to the particle point physics, the global files controls, the shaders, the bipeds, the vehicles, the physics even the bitmap tags so we can chose what settings we want them compiled with. Even assembly fails at mapping everything it, it's one of the main reasons I have not even bothered trying to mod H2V's campaign. The only 2 tag editors that meet the standards required for custom content, are the H1 and H2 versions of guerilla (the latter once fully unlocked of course).Campaign support: You may say this is a novelty, for a small group of people. But campaign is a place where literally you can do anything you desire. You can make firefight out of it, you could do what the SPV3 project is doing for H1, you could recreate another Halo game inside it and have fully customization over anything you wanted. You can create crazy weapons enemies, the possibilities are endless. But this literally requires access to every nook and cranny of the game. No one wants to jump into a multiplayer map and suddenly be hit by a whole new world of rules and weapon balance that they don't understand. Even in CE's past, there have been few custom maps with customized weapons that have had a long lasting appeal due to being properly designed. I am lucky enough to have had several, but being able to enter a world and learn the rules playing various difficulties, where anything can happen, thats the true appeal to custom tags and assets.H3 Forge is not a viable creation tool: I talked about this earlier, but no one from CE or from another engine wants to use forge. It's clunky, and it doesn't allow access to features that are needed. they can't be added in, and even if they could, it would be agonizing to do. Back in the Halo PC days we had spark edit, which was far more capable than forge was. So looking to forge as part of the solution is actually part of the problem, if I have to us forge and doing the things I need to take 5x longer than it would do in sapien, I'm not going to want to use it.Propper debug tools: Wether it be sapien bitching to me about my script errors, tool telling me how close I am to hitting a memory limit, guerilla detailing what each field I am using does, or warning me if a value is improper, or being able to view my portals in sapien to see how much is being rendered in a given scene, they are all necessary annoyances. Professional grade content means professional grade tools, and professional ways of debugging them that isn't stabbing blindly in the dark.I will probably update this later as more things come to mind, but I make this post on this communities behalf, so you know what we see as needed to make this game an alternative. I know some people here simply don't give a crap, and just want halo 3 on the PC. But guess what? This game will never be successful if it just replicates a 8 year old game. Sure you will have a crowd, but Halo fans in general will look at it and ask why they'd want to play it.So get past your anger, your defensiveness towards this game, and took a good hard look at the cold reality of what you need to do if you want dewrito to not be a flash in the pan. Because until you can address these concerns (and then some), I and the rest of my community will continue to view el dewrito as well... worthless, and not something we should concern our time with when there are plenty of other platforms to work on.Edit: Looks like it won't let me separate my point 2 into multiple paragraphs, if one of the mods can fix this I'd appreciate it, I have this post backed up in case you accidentally make a change you cant. Dany need to stop his crap and tell his best pal to stop this choas.
Edited by Cortana on Jan 2, 2016 at 09:15 PM

Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
I have the time to make the layout of the level

http://i65.tinypic.com/5u0ps2.jpg

Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD


take a look to this, please