I'm finally gonna be able to play through this tonight! :D

I keep getting a consistent pattern of fps drops throughout episode 1 so far. It's like an on and off thing between like every 2 seconds. What's up with that?

We purposely scripted in a lagging sequences every now and then to get FPS drops on lower end hardware.



We put our time into more important things such as level design, modeling, tag tweaks to nail down what we wanted to get for gameplay. You heavily underestimate the time and effort that goes into this, if you feel not making custom tags warrants dowgrading the level to 7/10. You've been very vocal about trying to put the mod down in the most subtle ways (see the "pretty" italics). You also forget the Shadow vehicle, which is very eye-appealing. But being the disappreciative person you are you just focused on the Sage model of course, convenient I agree.

With the small team we have we didn't have any time to invest into making the campaign up-to-date graphically, yet you say our "mindset" is the culprit. Just quit the bull man. Not quite sure why you feel you must repeat that you think this is an average piece of work in total, is it that you cannot accept that others think it is great? Is it some form of subtle jealousy?

Oh well, some people will just be pissy missies. Most often they are the most vocal ones too. Getting tired of reading the same crap by the same people.
Edited by The Lodeman on Oct 16, 2012 at 12:59 AM

Do you have trouble accepting criticism or something? Stop being a baby. Did I say I rated the mod a 7/10? No. I meant that I could see how one could rate it. As a developer on a team rather then taking criticism and crying about it, accept it and move forward. I said a lot of good about the mod and it was worth my play, and it nailed the classic style completely", that IS what you guys were going for right? And what do you mean i Must "repeat", I never said once that this was an average piece of work. Not once. 7/10 is still a good rating, yet you're STILL crying like a 12 year old. I don't get it. You took all the stuff that offended you and just complain, saying nothing about the good stuff. And I will tell you one thing, jealousy is not an issue here, look at each member of your team, everything that was in this mod, I have ALL of your skill, I could make this whole thing myself if I wanted to man. I can model, texture, script, animate, record, shader and everything else that needed to be done to make this campaign, LET ALONE I have almost complete knowledge of 2 other Development kits. That's something to be jealous of my dude.

If you plan on being an actual developer, or a co-lead for a game, and your game is rated a 7/10, what're you gonna do then? You worked all that time! You worked so hard! Yeah, it's a disappointment I get it, but just take it and learn forward. Were trying to be truthful.

And personally, I had a good time playing the campaign. My personal rating would be a 8.5/10, knowing it's meant to be CLASSIC, and deducting a point and a half for a couple things while playing. If you want any further explanation on why I rated it this, or why I said a 7/10 could be reasonably, PM me or IM me, I have no intention on hearing you whine.
Edited by Ki11erFTW on Oct 16, 2012 at 01:51 AM
Edited by Ki11erFTW on Oct 16, 2012 at 01:54 AM

I like your hypocrisy. It fits in very well with the whinging, spoilt dickhead attitude that you have accumulated over time. I now realise you were probably brought up in an environment that gave you whatever you wanted.

I wonder, if you cannot understand the basic meaning that people imply, how do you manage scripting? Or anything else, for that matter?

This thread has been ruined anyway, so I'm leaving.

i dont like to butt in on such ridiculous comments but i will just to prevent the next 20 pages becoming tit-for-tat put downs and other non-constructive comments.

killerftw, ur last post was offensive and completely unnecessary, u made ur opinion known in ur first comment, so leave it, u dont need to carry on like a turkey.

the lodeman, when trolls offer cheese, dont bite. be confident in ur work, lumoria 2 is an exceptional map that will always be remembered as one of the greatest ever accomplishments created with the standard halo engine.

for everyone else, lumoria 1 & 2 were created by a team that when combined, spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours working to deliver something special, something unseen and unlike anything that has produced before, just so they could hand over all of their hard work to us, for our entertainment, for free! thats amazing!

i think those who come on here and insult those who were involved in making lumoria should feel ashamed.
Edited by Ubergoober on Oct 16, 2012 at 03:39 AM

Was it unnecessary? He was berating Lodeman for overreacting to every single comment that was critical. He was calmly explaining why he could understand those comments, yet he was insulted!

Lodeman didn't just bite, he attempted to maul killer.

I don't feel ashamed, because I genuinely congratulated TM for making an awesome mini-campaign. However, that gives Lodeman no reason to act like he did.

Oh, and fanboy. Just saying...

fanboy.



Wut? I thought you were serious for a moment...
Edited by LegionofShadows on Oct 16, 2012 at 04:24 AM

Ya'll need to stop your crying and whining and just enjoy what was given to you. If you have anything constructive to post in terms of a criticism, then post constructively with some logical thinking behind it so we can actually comprehend what some of you may be thinking. If you want to rate the map, there's a perfectly good rating system on Halomaps where you can let your little hearts pour into it, or you can also rate on Moddb.

@Killa

We don't need a mindset for awesome graphically looking stuff and that wasn't the focus of our mission. If we wanted pretty graphics we would have done it, but it wasn't. Our focus was gameplay, that was our mindset. We don't share the mindset, so don't act like your mindset of having pretty graphics is fact.
Edited by Higuy on Oct 16, 2012 at 06:14 AM

Some people looove broccoli*. Others think it needs a bit of cheese, maybe some salt. Some people don't like broccoli. That doesn't necessarily mean broccoli is "doing it wrong", or that the people who dislike it are trolls who obviously only dislike it because it's so good. It just means that some people do not find broccoli to be an optimal experience, and that's ok, because everyone has (and will always have) their own perception of things.

Calm yourselves.

*"Broccoli", in this metaphor, is interchangeable with "Lumoria".
Edited by Echo77 on Oct 16, 2012 at 07:19 AM

I can accept criticism very well, just not when it's repeated time and time again by the same people. It's attitudes I have a problem with. Attitude along with illogical, poorly presented posts. And lmao dude, try making this thing yourself. You know absolutely nothing until you've gone through the process yourself. And you don't even have a SINGLE clue what our skillsets actually are. Each member focused on the aspects he is best at, I'd LOVE to see you try bro! Big mouth, little heart, as we say here.

I don't need advice from someone who hasn't proven anything remotely similar to this himself, and once again the 7/10 score is not the issue, it's how its presented that matters. The use of words, context, style and actual arguments. I obviously filter out the actual content of every post, but that doesn't stop me from "calling out" bad posters on posting in an immature way. Clearly me and the people that worked on this have already displayed great prowess in taking feedback into account, as simply displayed by the advances in Ep2's designs compared to Ep1's. Frankly the only things that can be improved in our work are things we didn't have full control over due to our resource and time limitations.

Now perhaps you realise that your posting habits could use some improvements if you want to offer proper criticism. That means not beating dead horses, not belittling work, not acting like a baby! And manning up and admitting your bad when called out.

Otherwise I wish you a good day. Cheers.



Hey kiddo, you have absolutely no knowledge of me, my environment or how I grew up. Don't you pretend you do. It would seem you are the spoilt little baby, not appreciating things given to them for free. Lmao kid, how do you come up with such nonsense :p
Edited by The Lodeman on Oct 16, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Lodeman, seriously, calm down. They have a right to give whatever kind of review they wish. Before you overreacted and started a ridiculous argument, those reviews contained no insults or offensive words whatsoever.

I respect you as a modder. You are a great artist, but take criticism calmly. Don't start getting in a temper with people just because you're not happy to only have a 7/10. That's a stupid and childish attitude to have.

While I might sometimes come across as harsh, it's a misconception that I get worked up.
People have the right to express their opinion, and I have the right to express my opinion about their's and the way they present it. It's nothing more than that.

Anyways, I've expressed my thoughts on certain people their posts and have nothing more to say about it. Let's keep it clean aye.

I apologize if I ignited a fire here, Originally All i was trying to do is help, not piss people off.

@Higuy, I completely appreciate the mod as is. I know what the goal was and it nailed it. Like I said a million times. I meant that a 7/10 could be understanding at a certain way of looking at it, (like if the user was expecting new models, etc, which there was some). Never did I say I looked at it this way.

@Lodex, Really man, you're still going? Man chill out. I know what the process is, I've built countless SP maps, and BSP's that were never released or only shown on youtube, though that was years ago, and I think many of you know that. I know you guys worked hard! The fact that you take my criticism and take all the negative things and tell me its jealousy, and whatever else is just unnecessary. You just take all the things I criticize and throw it at me, leaving out the good things I said. If I seemed harsh then I apologize you can't handle that, I'll leave my comments about your work alone then. If I knew this was gonna happen I wouldn't have posted originally.


I'm not a troll, and I'm not offering cheese. I read these forums once and a while, and I see people say ONE THING he doesn't like and he starts posting like a wise-***. Maybe because he's actually a women, then I could understand a little more.

Heh the only positive comments I saw you give is that our encounters were "pretty" good, "some okay, some not". That kind of thing. Any positive feedback you give you immediately contrast with a negative. It's a posting style of yours, and it's not appreciated. This is why I throw the negative back at you, since your positive reinforcement, if you can call it that, was delivered in a mediocre, sometimes even belittling way.

You should stop acting like a woman dude, calm down :-)
And your SP maps were just experiments, never a fully polished campaign. My point was that you heavily underestimate doing the entire process properly...and I think you realise this well enough.

Anyways, if you wish to continue acting all sexist, feel free to do it further via PMs as you suggested yourself.

I'm not taking the time to PM someone like yourself. You have no information on my single player maps. They were not experiments, how dare you judge my work that was never SEEN by people. The stuff I'm doing now is more like experiments. You CANNOT tell me that I'm underestimating anything. While you and your team was working on maps like Garden, for example, or maybe before you came into the picture, me and my friend were working on something huge, and would have been a great accomplishment if I wasn't interrupted(parents getting divorced, selling my house, losing my pc, etc). I dont even have the content anymore.

Go read a few post's up of mine, i clearly said ITS A GREAT SET OF MAPS. What else is there to say? Don't reply, I dont really care, I will get my point in.

My mod does not get a 9 out of 10?

fuc you!

Cheers to l28 nagging on us until the end of time, well done mate!

Just for fun, here's an early firefight concept we were considering making. It was set to take place during Lumoria's events on another part of the installation:


Don't think we'll ever get around to making it anymore, but I thought the concept was cool. Who knows someone else can pick up the idea :-)

This is a course of action that has consequences. Be constructive in your posts or be gone.

I think I mentioned this in my narrated vid, but I'll say it here too: the creep is called the shadow in Halo 2. The man who imported it into CE named it 'creep' to be slightly different with still some of the same implications.

Oh a firefight! I love those, too bad you're not doing it anymore. Oh well, if there was a BSP I'd offer my help on it, too bad (firefights tend to be my speciality).

Don't recall tbh. Might have been my old New Mombasa one?



Untrue. We explained the naming process earlier in the thread. Shadow was the original name of the vehicle we use it, see Halo E3 2000. The creep was also a name used for the Covenant Bus at one point in time.



No BSP. I just meant that some of the concepts of the map could perhaps be picked up by another team. If there was already a BSP I'd want to implement our own ideas myself, as I too am quite experienced in the firefight department. Cheers for offering help though.

flakcannon too right? i like calling it what it was intended not what the tag is...
cyborg....

im awsom at halo and in 2 to 3 shots the sheild fails so yea thats what needs to be improved and not to mention why you made so many parts for the second ep and 1 for episode 1 wtf ep 1 takes ages to play so why dont you breek it up like you did to the second other than that i give it 8/10

The main reason they broke up episode 2 is because they couldn't cram all that stuff into 1 level (tag space issues) like they could in episode 1.

The firefight concept Lodeman put up I would really like to see made into a firefight map with Mooseguys scripts (but still with stock weapons).

As you know our workflow starts off from a rough concept. The concept shown illustrates key areas, driving paths for vehicles, and assault routes as well as the main firefight base. Aside from that the point of that .png file is to illustrate the gameplay concepts we came up with for the flow of the "firefight" styled map. At this stage not much attention is put into the location of small rocks, trees, etc.

Once this rough BSP would have been produced I would start implementing the core logic of the map, test everything, see if the scale of the BSP feels right, if any major new landmarks should be added/removed to the concept, etc. Based off gameplay testing it would be very possible that some parts of that BSP would end up looking radically different. Along with this scenery is placed and refined. It's a much longer iterative process than many seem to think, and your point about the BSP looking fairly basic is moot. Alongside that, quite often the simplest things are the best. Making things too complex is a terrible thing to do.

And "dude", as I've said countless times, I am probably the calmest person posting here. My posts might be rough around the edges, but that doesn't mean I'm "flaming" people or hitting my desk/keyboard out or anger. "Chill out", "cowabunga", that sort of thing.

I'm sorry but I think you're probably confusing it with something else. Quite possibly you're thinking of the first part of the exterior BSP of lumoria_c, which I dubbed "woodlands". I do believe I might have showed you that in an early phase (at the time it wasn't part of Lumoria, rather an experimental BSP I made for Multiplayer, but it turned out to be great fun on SP after some tweaking, so we replaced a previously mondane area with it). Otherwise I have no clue which you mean :p

In an ideal world we were going to make an AA-wraith for that section. The idea was similar to H3's the Covenant, take out the AA-Wraith, which would've been shooting at pelicans or something out in the distance.

Tagspace, time, resources however prevented us from ever fully putting that concept into motion. The original "placeholder" wraith became good at shooting down pelicans now, as seen in the opening cutscene. And the "scenic distance pelicans" were simply not thought about anymore.

Well spotted either way. We almost thought it'd gone unnoticed :O

I had little bit of a chuckle when I read this.
Edited by General Okar on Oct 18, 2012 at 04:23 AM

I'm finishing up my Lumoria Behind-The-Scene Cinematic Director Commentary for anyone interested:

A - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoM6sjM0Ti4
B - http://youtu.be/PVMb9JZBjEA
C - http://youtu.be/gIueUedvklg (uploading overnight)
D - Still gotta film xD

They contain spoilers so if you haven't played Lumoria yet, go play it!



Forgot to talk about that in the commentary but holy crap that wraith took FOREVER to actually get it to hit the pelican. When it did finally hit; because the pelican was running a custom animation it had no collision moving that fast... AGHH!!! It only hits now because I placed an invisible wall right there so that's actually what the wraith projectile hits.
Edited by MatthewDratt on Oct 21, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Thank you for posting those commentary's.
E:
this just came to my attention.

I'm making some new AI in guerilla right now, and passing through the grenade section made me realize you're AI never throw grenades. That might be worth a repair. Sorry if I'm a little late on that but I'm just making sure it was mentioned.
Edited by Ki11erFTW on Oct 22, 2012 at 04:00 AM

i just finished lumoria, and i have to say, the story and layout was a smashing success in my point of view. the final part was a nice addition with a good challenge. i await what comes in the future

The very last week of the polishing phase went terribly off plan, and I feel ashamed if that still got in. What happened was the following.

Jesse had made edited weapon tags to include HUD zoom functionality. Only Higuy had these tags and somehow he nor Jesse noticed it used a damage effect. This caused AI to make screeming noises all the time.

One of our testers noticed the AI screaming bug the first time. So we had to investigate what caused it. Extensive exploration and replacing of the ai dialog tags did not resolve the issue (May's default dialog was also replaced and forgotten to be replaced back to the female dialog like this). Another first route of seeking a solution was replacing character folders with mine (which definitely throw grenades), however it is possible Higuy also tried extracting them from HEK (this is the only way I can imagine the grenades got messed up again).

Eventually Higuy told me his weapons were different from the ones I had, thanks to Jesse. This lead to the realisation that it was Jesse's weapons that were causing the issue.

This cost us about 2 days just before release, and obviously May's dialog, and apparently character tags (?) are now messed up. Ironically Jesse told Higuy afterwards that he had already fixed his issue ages ago, but never sent them to us.

I am not here to blame anyone. I'm just letting you know how an amazingly unlikely tag change which wasn't communicated well can cause such annoying shortcomings. We decided on a release date about 2 weeks beforehand, and it would have been feasible if this unlikely bug had not cost us 2 days to figure out. It's a shame that one miscommunication caused these minor shortcomings, but it is what it is.

I personally don't care enough about it to do a re-release as I have moved on to new projects. I also doubt most people would redownload this much files just for such changes.

However KillerFTW, note that I have not gone ingame to verify the lack of AI throwing grenades. If you extracted our AI in HEK+ then the grenade values would be messed up per default. HEK+ does this.

To sum up, lessons learnt personally:
- Every change in asset should always be "documented" and communicated
- Don't plan release dates 2 weeks ahead of time when some polish is still required

Otherwise I'm extremely happy with the work we've achieved with such a small team, as well with the way we did it. The above text was one of the only things to go "wrong" in an otherwise smooth development process.

Cheers and beers to all.

I have not extracted your AI in hek+. I was working with my own tags, right after watching dratts commentary, so it was fresh in my head, and then i was like.. wait a minute.. I don't recall them throwing nade's in my game either.

I'm fairly certain that nades do get thrown because I thought I made sure they did, but if not, see L0d3mans post. Could also be dratt's AI if he has his own compiled builds