also h3mt tags totally screw up your tags, and have something special in the that activates within 2 months of your download.

lol
are you for serious with that somethign special...

I think that it's fairly obvious what he wants here, Masters hit on all the points that I wanted to make, especially one.. People really want to pull this sort of drivel because they want to be known. I mean yeah sure it feels nice to know that people know what you can do and that they know they're appreciated, but this isn't the way. I've seen quite a few people that want to be famous or want the glory like in the 'movies' as you said, but then they go about it like this and release others work and, sadly, in a fashion that makes them look like a tool.

As far as I'm concerned, Cellista can't really judge first rate tags from 'no rate' tags, as there are more good quality tags now than before (especially with sigma's tag set coming). I don't know guys, I mean I haven't been 'active' for the entire time I've been apart of this community, and I have seen a lot of stuff that's just like this. However, he has some points that make a lot of sense, that, if asked, I wouldn't be hesitant to point at all. Anyway I could talk about my views on stuff all night long, but it wouldn't be worth it, for the sheer quantity of ignorance and immaturity that's contained within this thread alone, let alone the entire community itself, is just overwhelming at times.

yes yes I am, its a craptag

Black and white augments never show the true color of an issue.

Example: The Halo CE Chronicles are a result of all ripped content.

If you want be a true purest about software derived content then program it using ones and zeros and don't use all those copies of other people's programs.

There is a severe lack of perspective on both sides of this issue. We are not talking about people's livelihoods or things that support families and jobs. We are talking about fan based objects that can not be sold or used for profit. We are talking about virtual objects that can not be copyrighted and are, by design of the original copyright holders, meant to be used/reused in the game. THE GAME.

My advice is to, either way, truly understand your motives for why you feel the way you do about it and then learn all the facts like you can’t legally own the creation, then in your mind argue the other side of it. I suspect that you may not be as adamant afterward.

im all up for protection its just the protected stuff needs to stay protected, unless the author says otherwise, its all a matter of respect.

This is win. If the creator open sources the project, then feel free to rip it, but don't rip from protected maps. They protected it so they OBVIOUSLY don't want you ripping it. If they wanted you to rip it then they would have open sourced it.

Why protect in the first place? This is a serious question looking for a thoughful answer.

I don't know, I have not protected anything ever. I don't plan to either, but for those who did theres nothing we can do to change that, and we shouldn't be trying to un-protect what they protected. merely because its there work and they wanted it that way, more or less a matter of respect.
I don't support protection, but I cant do anything about it and wont.

Makes sense to me, but the one thing you fail to realize, simply because you are on what i like to call a "different plane of understanding". What that means is, not that you can't understand, but don't because you aren't in the same shoes as we are. Yeah sure, we don't own the rights to anything we put in game, but we did create the objects. The people themselves who created the concepts of master chief, or modeled him or created the animations to make the man behind the visor we all know don't own him, but they created it. Just like them, we don't do this for fun, but use it as a tool to advance other areas like modeling or programming, animation whatever you can come think of, and every little thing is an achievement. For someone to take that away and call your time and effort his time and effort, is practically like taking apart of my life away. The only difference is that instead of getting respect and all the things that people who do good things in this community get, they get money.

The biggest point you make though is how people don't view the other sides, which is why everyone is so ignorant and why the world as a whole, not just our little community in our little corner of the net.. is in disorder a lot of the time.

Okay, let me start by saying I've been avoiding this forum, because of the fact that I am sick of tired seeing arguments like this one and others spill into everything. First of all this argument is doing nothing constructive for anyone, and second of all once you start fighting with each other no one here seems to ever let a grudge go.

Now that I have those issues out of the way, I can tell you why giving out the most impressive tags does nothing good for this community, aside from fanboys. In real life it is my job to tutor university students trying to learn computer science. This means that I first had to learn how to properly program, and you would be surprised at just how different that is from what everyone seems to think. This best for me to learn is to be able not only see the object, but be able to examine through study or reading materials covering the subject. This applies in computer science in the sense that I have to first be given a problem before I can solve it. Now once I have said problem I can begin to use various methods to try and approach a workable solution. This means that if I know do not know how to solve a particular problem then I will have to learn a new way to solve a problem. Once I have learned a new methodology I will have gained new knowledge that can potential help me in the future as well as give me just a greater understanding of computer science on a whole.

However, the approach I have to take with teaching one of the university students is different. The reason for this is that they have come to me; because the student either does not understand the methodology that will solve their given problem, or that the student does not know what methodology he or she should be using. Now I could do what some here believe is best and just give them the answer, in other words just have one person make the tag, animation, script, etc, and let everyone use it, or I could begin to point them in the direction of the correct answer. Now there are pros and cons to both of these approaches. If I were to just give them the correct answer the student would just pass the class, and I would have more free time at work to do whatever I feel like on the computer, side note university jobs are awesome ignoring work hour caps. If I just give out all the answers to a student though, in most cases, that student will then choose not to learn the required material for later classes. This would mean that I would be sending students into advanced classes, that, well to put it bluntly, knew nothing of the subject matter. At this point I hope we can all agree that this is a bad thing, and explains a lot about Microsoft programs.

So, now we can look at the other option I listed above. This option is instead of just giving away the answer to a student I can show the outline of how it should work. This allows the student to have an idea of what they should be working towards, sounds somewhat similar to a new map maker seeing a really cool feature in a map and wanting to have one in their own, but forces the student to have to learn how to get to the correct answer. Now, in many cases I will have to give out a similar example out before a understands the methodology that should be implemented, also akin to giving out some of the lower quality free tags, animations, shaders, etc with tutorials, and in these cases I will typically have to help the student go through certain hurdles of confusion. However, once a student finally solves the problem given to him or her with the correct methodology that student can now reuse that new piece of knowledge whenever needed. On top of this the student can now use this knowledge to begin understanding more advanced concepts that are built off of the original.

What I hope you see is the point here that I am trying to make. If every teacher you ever had just gave you all the answers to every problem given to you, then you would never have learned how to do those things for yourself. These are the methods that have to occur if we want this community to ever grow, and make new, original content from multiple users. When people take the easy way out, which in all honesty almost every person does, that person robs themselves to learn and grow.

How many of you have taken a math course and in the book, before the assignment part with the problems, they have those examples for you to look at to better grasp the concepts that you would need to utilize to complete your work, and the examples aren't good enough to explain the more complicated problems you run into... What do you do? Ask your instructor? What if you aren't in a place to ask that/it's not convenient for you to do so? Well, if you look at the answer, and work the problem backwards it helps immensely, same thing goes for other things. This mostly applies if your self taught in my opinion though. If there were people who could teach me how to model with more effective techniques, or how to tag, then I wouldn't need tutorials or examples, would I? Yet I will admit, you did hit on some good points, and it's not really the question of making EVERYTHING open source, but making things that aren't common knowledge open source. It can be in any form as far as I'm concerned, whether it be tutorial or what have you.

I do realize though, just like our 16th president did, you can satisfy some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

Blablabla this flaming is stupid, all the tags are on the site available, this map just makes the lazy people more lazy as they can gather the tags with their own effort aswell, this is THE SAME stuff you can get everywhere, I don't see the purpose of releasing what has been released already with the purpose to release what has been out there...

stop debating, it has been created once, and someone used it again, big deal, shouldn't even had to make a topic about this since it's just some kind of attracting attention, like how could this be special? not, the tags are here, and don't need to be gathered in another map, pointless to do so.

The idea is good, but the action doesn't make sense, as you can gather it yourself aswell.

I do rip and release it to the community, but not the exact same stuff right next to me, if you wanna share, share stuff that people didn't ALREADY have. So either create new stuff, or release rips with that little evil i don't mind, that hasn't been done already...

so again, right idea, wrong action.

Thats sure a reason that people protect there maps...
But theres also a lot of reasons not to.

Also, i totally agree with the guy who made this thread.

whos youtube video is that? With all that attitude i'm ready to just keep the CMT mod completely private.

oke let me explain it this way

when your making a project and you worked on it really hard
and then some1 comes along and takes half the credit for it

that wouldn't feel nice well would it

thats how open source feels to us
Edited by gamegodlazy on Mar 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM

whoever it belongs to, they joined yesterday.

I think it's okay to rip from maps, if people WANTED people to rip from them, which was not the case with H3MT. If you'd make a map, left it unprotected and said that it would be ok and the tags are open sourced, I think it's fine (as long as proper credit is given). It's just wrong from people to rip from H3MT Narrows, because you weren't supposed to rip from it, hell, you weren't even supposed to HAVE it. Telling something is crap while it's a leaked beta is just plain stupid .You don't steal an artists unfinished painting and say it's crap? I don't think so, and this is kind of the same idea.

EXACTLY

We protect our maps for many reasons:
First of all we feel bad/sad when we see our tags, models, maps ect
being used or associated with things we wont want them being used
or associated with

You dont lend your car to some1 who you dont trust, like or think of as a responsible person


it's kinda the same with our tags

I dont mind open source if the tags are being used because the fit in the map
where they make sense and work properly

and you also said once that people shouldnt use custom weapons because most make maps unbalanced. That we should stick to the h1 weapons

well here ya go

If we wouldnt have any leaks or uploadsof custom weapons and protected the maps fro mteh very begin then people would be stuck with the h1 weapons or they could always make their own


most mapping teams upload their old stuff

so open source is more

like us older brothers lending our little brother our old bike or computer where the little brother is very with and the older brother has the better stuff because the odler brother

Why is everyone flaming this guy for announcing a new map mod?

A tool?

Do you know this guy personally?

It is not stealing. He is not taking anything from the makers of the tags, just expanding the usage of the tag. Dennis, i think you should lock this thread. Its getting far too off topic
Edited by Koo294 on Mar 5, 2009 at 01:23 PM

I think this is a good release for a map, because if you are for exmple a really talented modler (Im not), but dont want to use h1 stuff or didn't have the time to dedicate to a team or partener or just didn't want to,you could just download this map. but you should always give cred

So it is considered stealing to use uploaded tags and unprotected maps to create mods, even if credit and praise is given to the original creators? Wouldn't that work its way back to the first mod of an original out of the box Halo CE Map?

..... Its just a game, seriously, whatever content goes through tool is automatically M$'s, best thing to do is except that, if a leak occurs, generally people are going to use the content because they think it might be cool or whatever.

Basically, stop taking things so seriously.

you still hold the rights to the model

if you modeled something and put it in halo ce

you still have the right on your 3d model

if i havemade a painting and scan it and put it trough tool

then i am still the artist of the painting and hold all the rights to the painting

You're still the author yes, but the 'unsupported' halo custom edition, as was made clear some time ago, removes all your rights when you release it in a halo map. the model is still yours, the map however, not, so the only thing is to protect it as well as you can, as once released, you don't have right anymore, you're just the maker of it and morally people should give credits, it's not even a law.
Try sue people, it just won't work in halo ce.

Atleast, that's what was told me in nummerous discussions, if you can get the police to sue them, meh, then i'm told wrong, but i'm a fan of opensource so i don't bother with sueing or whatever
Edited by BeachParty clan on Mar 5, 2009 at 02:49 PM

isnt it liek this

according to the law
if you take or use something
like a sample of a song or model
and the author doenst allow it and especially if you dont give credit for it
or claim as yours it's plagiarism

so if i make a map yes
i dotn have rights on the map
but i do have the right on the model
so thats why we protect our maps
using other persons model is a vorm of plagiarism
Edited by gamegodlazy on Mar 5, 2009 at 03:47 PM

ZOMG 4 pages in 2 days????
I would have expected a cooler thread to achieve that...

I played Zanzibar halo 3....and it made me cry T_T.
Only reason the map is called Zanzibar HALO 3 is because "SOME" of the weapons are halo 3 based.
And look at the player model....LULZ
And the hands are Halo 2....i think
So yeah the map is a fail
if you atleast changed the map itself a little bit to look like last resort and name the map last resort....then "MAYBE" i would have think it was cool for a first last resort map try.Just like i did with mmt_sandtrap, the map is horible but its the first sand trap map made for halo CE so i think its cool.

the map is microsofts
the model is yours

you cant sell the map for $
and microsoft cant sell your model for $ or use it for their other games ect

so you give microsoft permission in a way to use the model for that map even if your the actual person who made it
Edited by gamegodlazy on Mar 5, 2009 at 03:59 PM

I agree that it was "stealing", if you didn't want the tags out in the first place.
But thats still not stealing

Edited by Koo294 on Mar 5, 2009 at 04:39 PM

How about you let the thread die, and debate it in that youtube video?

Great idea.

God there are so many frickin' retards galavanting about this forum looking to spam topics which they want to die. Idiots.