That someone released recently, does H3MT or anyone else mind if they are used? I just want to be sure...

It's H3MT's fault it was leaked, and they have to pay the consequences by letting noobs and so on(not saying you are one) use them in their maps. You may be hated by them, but by all means, you have the right to use the Bubble shield, and all the weapons in Narrows.

I see. Well, if I ever happen to use them, credit will be given entirely to H3mt.

He asked if h3mt minded, last time I checked you got the boot.

Also I would appriciate you not using it.

Do you see what you are saying? They do not have the rights. We do not have to let them. These guys are trying to take credit for our tags.

Well they're not your tags anymore they're Micrsofts now! So It doesn't matter Doan! Because ONCE YOU PUT IT THROUGH TOOL THEY'RE MICROSOFTS TAGS!!!

^ this comment has been nominated for worst comment of the year. Congratulations... hope to see you at the noob emmys

I loved this comment. :)

Its not microsofts. We dont compile with tool. We compile with tool*.

Oh, so it's not the same?

the stuff is made to be used with the HEK and the halo CE game engine, and tool* is just a user friendly control panel that operates tool.exe.
according the the EULA, its microsuck's stuff

No donut. tool* does not use the tool.exe that halo has built in. It was made by WM clan.

On the contrary, the creator does not have rights. I don't care if you compiled these things with Tool(*&^&8612861872631, they are still tags/maps/etc, so they belong to Microsoft, period. There never was a right to modify Tool in the first place anyways, that's technically illegal.

The creator doesn't have rights because there is no control over your content within the realm of Halo CE. Once released, it is, by legal definition, NOT by a matter of opinion or what YOU think is right, free to be used in any way with or without credit by anyone. And nobody seems to accept this and they drone on endlessly about how credit has to be given where needed and that people cannot rip from protected maps because it is morally wrong.

I'm not talking about morals, I'm talking about the facts. The truth. Not the opinion.

I know you're not going to accept what I just said, so go on and blabber as usual in response.
Edited by Me KS on Nov 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM

regardless, its still being used for halo ce. also, you compile scenarios through your program into usable map files, so they are still being used for ce. its still rightfully microsofts stuff

So your finding ways to people that use our tags dont look stupid? Creators of the tags still have the creative common rights in effect. So they do have rights to there content. The point of this argument was supposed to be that he was using our content and tried to claim credit.

Nope, just saying that he has the right to do that. I agree with you that morally it is wrong for someone to take your content and claim credit, but every time you release something (I know this was a leak, but it's the same idea), you're legally implying that you're letting people do whatever they please with it.

However, he is giving credit, so I don't see where your argument is going here.

Meaning, you can't blame them. If you don't want something used, unfortunately your only option is not to release something (even if it was a leak in this case. Well, blame the leakers).
Edited by Me KS on Nov 11, 2008 at 11:10 PM

Response to Red: Give me proof it is illegal to take credit (which again, he is giving credit...) within Halo CE. Because here's proof of Microsoft's Game Content Usage rules, which apply to Halo CE, showing that the only person who gets credit and fully owns all of our content is Microsoft:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/developer/rules

Response to Green: That's a terrible argument. We're not talking about companies that actually own the copyright to the things they make. Of course that's illegal.

We're talking about content that is made for free and is released for free. The entire time that content is copyright-owned by Microsoft. In fact, it is illegal to sell your content because, once again, it belongs to Microsoft, as stated in the link I gave you.

So you know why we can modify other people's content at will? Because Microsoft gives us explicit permission to. Not the creator. ... As stated in the link I gave you.

Please, I'd like to see your proof of it being illegal to take credit for content within Halo CE.
Edited by Me KS on Nov 11, 2008 at 11:27 PM

Halo CE is not a Microsoft product. Its gearboxes. Taking credit for something that isn't yours is Plagiarism. Which is illegal.
Here is the EULA to reference to. It doesn't say anywhere that anything that goes through tool is Microsofts.

Be sure to carefully read and understand all of the rights and restrictions described in this End User License Agreement (“EULA”). You will be asked to review and either accept or not accept the terms of the EULA.

This product will not set up on your computer unless or until you accept the terms of the EULA.  

Note:  These downloadable features provided by Gearbox Software LLC (“Gearbox”) on this website are UNSUPPORTED and are provided solely for use with the Microsoft® Halo® software game for the personal computer.     

For your future reference, you may print the text of the EULA, or refer to a copy of the EULA that can be found in the EULA.rtf  file of this product.   If you would like to print the EULA before proceeding, please select the Print command now.  You may resume set-up at any time. 

Should you have any questions concerning this EULA or desire to receive a copy of this EULA, you may write Gearbox at: Gearbox Software, 101 East Park Blvd #1069, Plano, TX 75074.

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT 

IMPORTANT—READ CAREFULLY: This End-User License Agreement (“EULA”) is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and Gearbox Software LLC (“Gearbox”) for the unsupported software accompanying this EULA, which includes computer software and may include associated media, and “online” or electronic documentation (“SOFTWARE PRODUCT” or “SOFTWARE”). By downloading, installing, copying, accessing or otherwise using the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. 

SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed, not sold.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
·	Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, run, or otherwise interact with (“RUN”) a copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT for your personal, noncommercial use only solely for use in connection with the Microsoft® Halo® software game .  Neither the SOFTWARE PRODUCT nor this EULA gives you any rights to use the Internet, the Halo game, or any on-line or other services or software that may be necessary to use all features associated with the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.  The right to any additional services or software as described herein is subject to the end-user license agreement associated therewith and may be subject to additional charges.  You acknowledge that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is UNSUPPORTED.
·	Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that a) each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright and trademark notices; b) each copy shall be accompanied by a copy of this EULA; and c) such distribution shall not be for commercial purposes.  
2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS. 
·	Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.
·	Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than one computer.
·	Software Transfer. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA.
·	Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Gearbox may terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT and all of its component parts.
·	Multiplayer Play.  This SOFTWARE PRODUCT may contain features which allow you to host games for other players games in connection with the SOFTWARE PRODUCT over a network or the Internet (“Multiplayer Play”).  By using such features or otherwise engaging in Multiplayer Play, you agree that Gearbox, Microsoft or their agents may generate, store and transmit certain information which identifies your COMPUTER to other computers for purposes of Multiplayer Play.  You also agree that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may continue to generate, store and transmit such game information as necessary for Multiplayer Play.  You agree that Multiplayer Play is not supervised or otherwise under the control of Gearbox, Microsoft or their agents.  You acknowledge and agree that neither Gearbox nor Microsoft or their agents have no control over or responsibility for your experience while engaged in Multiplayer Play, or any content or other information or data you may create, encounter or receive, including chat, while you are engaged in Multiplayer Play. 
3. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and “applets” incorporated into the SOFTWARE PRODUCT), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material.
4.	U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT and documentation are provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013 or subparagraphs (c)(1) and (2) of the Commercial Computer Software—Restricted Rights at 48 CFR 52.227-19, as applicable.  
5.	EXPORT RESTRICTIONS.  You acknowledge that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is subject to U.S. export jurisdiction.  You agree to comply with all applicable international and national laws that apply to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, including the U.S. Export Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and other governments.  For additional information, see http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/.

LIMITED WARRANTY
NO WARRANTIES. Gearbox and Microsoft expressly disclaim any warranty for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT and any related documentation is provided “as is” without warranty of any kind, either express or implied, including, without limitation, the implied warranties or merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or noninfringement. The entire risk arising out of use or performance of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT remains with you.
NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. In no event shall Gearbox, Microsoft or their suppliers be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of business profits, business interruption, loss of business information, or any other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability to use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, even if such party has been advised of the possibility of such damages. Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the above limitation may not apply to you.
MISCELLANEOUS
If you acquired this product in the United States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of Washington.
If this product was acquired outside the United States, then local laws may apply.

What, you magically expect it to put it in exact words for you? Actually, it's right here:

3. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and “applets” incorporated into the SOFTWARE PRODUCT), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material.

The "SOFTWARE PRODUCT" includes the HEK and that means Tool, of course, and considering it says all inches of this thing belong to Microsoft, and that the HEK does come with default tags, the tags belong to Microsoft too. And the link I gave you more directly proves that than this EULA.

Edit: And it's not plagiarism if the entire time the content belongs to Microsoft.
Edited by Me KS on Nov 11, 2008 at 11:38 PM

HEK is the application. It says nothing of what the application makes because it is about what it comes with. It says that anything INCLUDED in the install is owned by microsoft. The link you gave me does not apply to this product because microsoft did not produce Halo CE. If you noticed Halo CE does not have the Microsoft intro. Microsoft and gearbox only owns whats in the install. Not that the applications make. The content we make belongs to us.
Edited by DEEhunter on Nov 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM

Was there ever a good idiot?

Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and Halo 3

^ That's in the list of games that the page applies to. I don't care if Gearbox made it, the Halo IP in general is owned by Microsoft, and as long as "Halo" is in a game, it must be given permission to be used by Microsoft. So, if Halo CE is obviously using the Halo IP, regardless of the fact that Gearbox created it, the copyright belongs to Microsoft.

So yes, that page applies.

And the HEK installation comes with tags. That applies to all tags, because just like the tags we run through Tool, those tags must have been run through Tool as well, considering the HEK or something very similar to it was used to make the game.

Halo Custom Edition was NEVER made or produced by microsoft. It was never produced at all actually. It was a gearbox softworks release. That page has nothing to do with this. That EULA clearly states that the only thing they own is the contents of the installation. Many softwares have this EULA. But they do not own what you make with it. An example: You make a model in 3ds max, but the model you make is not owned by Autodesk.

Of course you don't care, because you automatically side with the more respected member and try to act cool by attempting to intimidate me with bold letters so he can applaud you.

Typical.

Your attempt to null his statement has failed.

DEE, you are so wrong it makes me sad. Anything that is compiled into a CE map is no longer your property. Deal with it.

There is no valid proof of this. The EULA doesnt state that your content belongs to them.

If it even looks like something "halo" then microsoft can try claim it.

My post was completely true, and look what you did again DEE. Way to freakin' go. He never stated he was going to steal credit, but just use them and ask if they would mind. I answered that he could use them because it's their fault it was leaked, but H3- I mean, Doan would not like it.

We do not have to LET them use it. Its still our map.

true, but the users are ignorant enough to still use it

Microsoft dont care crap about halo ce and the tags. they never had anything to do with the production of the game

I don't think it'd be too hard to make a bubble shield projectile. How's it supposed to behave? lasts 10 seconds or so? Can you fire and move out of it? Does it have a damage threshold? Lets re-invent this wheel

No, it's not yours.



I know it was never made or produced by Microsoft. I know it wasn't produced at all. But I just said, it doesn't matter that Gearbox made it. Gearbox had to get permission from Microsoft and Bungie to create Halo CE, because Microsoft owns the copyright to all Halo-related titles. Meaning, if Gearbox had just made and released Halo CE out of the blue, they would've run into some serious legal issues. So what does this tell you? That in fact, Microsoft has control over Halo CE as well. So yes, the page still applies.

Also, once again, another bad comparison. The Autodesk EULA for 3ds Max states specifically that content created with it can be used for commercial and for-profit reasons, and if it can be used for those reasons, then the content obviously belongs to its creator:



Although this is a section for the student version, the implication is that if the student version does not allow for-profit use of the software, then obviously the stand-alone, network, etc. version licenses must allow commercial use of the software. This implies that content created in it may be sold and therefore belongs to its creator.

Considering that the 3ds Max EULA did state, regardless of how indirectly it did, that the content does belong to its creator, then why doesn't the Halo CE EULA state this? Certainly the Halo CE EULA does not say anything about commercial use of any software within.

Also, a little common sense: What are the applications of a model from 3ds Max? Many things.

What are the applications of tags in Halo CE? One thing: to be compiled into a map. What are the applications of a map? One thing: to be played specifically in Halo CE and Halo CE only.

So how can you tell me that content created using HEK (owned by Microsoft), which can only be used by Halo CE (owned by Microsoft), belongs to its creator if it's content that is MADE by Microsoft software specifically and solely to be USED by Microsoft software?

Edit: Just found something to end all arguments. In the EULA provided with Halo PC, I found a section that directly proves my point. Although Halo PC did not have an editor, it implies that Halo CE's editor (the HEK) would be subject to the same legal terms:



If that's not clear enough, I don't know what is. I know you're going to come up with the argument that "it's not Halo CE's EULA". But, considering it's coming from the same company who made Halo CE only a year later, this has to apply to Halo CE as well considering that Gearbox was governed by the same legal rules when making Halo PC as when making Halo CE, regardless of the fact that Halo CE was free and Halo PC was not.

And the fact that you needed a CD key from Halo PC to install Halo CE is nearly the same thing as having to "buy" Halo CE, so there was obviously some commercial purpose behind Halo CE regardless of its lack of production. Otherwise, they would've just had it be available to all customers and not just Halo PC owners.
Edited by Me KS on Nov 12, 2008 at 04:13 PM