I'd like to get something off my chest if I may.

The title of this topic refers the the amount of 'noob' bashing that I have read on this forum.

It's not the usual suspects though. Usually on a forum you'll get the intermediate guys slating the new guys then the moderators or administrators step in and and put things right.

Here, unfortunately, the bashing of 'noobs' is carried out mainly by the people who are supposed to keep things running sweetly.

Why on earth do you guys (you know who you are) constantly degrade peoples efforts with your frankly childish outbursts...

'That map/mod you made is crap/bad/awful/a waste of time' - never followed by any constructive advice or help, but usually followed by several other members joining in with their pointless comments to further degrade an already disappointed contributor.

Get a grip on your forum or people will say 'why bother I'll go elsewhere' - or are you guys so fed up with Halo CE and all you have left to brighten your lives is a slanging match with a guy who just wanted a bit of advice or help from the so called 'pros'.

I understand how much work is involved running a forum, and that you often get asked the same questions over and over, but a quick point in the right direction is often all that is needed to help the needy on their way - without the need to put them down and possibly turn them off the idea of making a new mod/map for their beloved game.

While you're pondering your response to my post, have a look around the internet and see how other forums are run.

Take a hint - play nice, have fun.

Just my two CENTS!
Edited by Black Crypt on Sep 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM

There has been a lot of post like this to have Dennis install a more updated and spam proof forum but there has been a lot of "band-aid" approaches to our problems.

You have apparently not understood the gist of Black Crypt's post. He is not talking about spam or technical issues he is talking about how people act. That fact that you are blaming the technical nature of the forum software for the flaming and immaturity is a clear indication that you are not taking responsibility for your actions. How the forum works technically has nothing whatsoever to do with how you should act when responding to posts.

This forum is populated mostly by children between the ages of 12-16. That alone makes it difficult due to the lack of impulse control, boundary issues and under-developed socialization skills of people in that age group. The Halo CE General forum is the only one where the members try to “make their bones”, get “street cred” or more exactly obtain self worth by putting others down, a common attribute of the age group. The Technical section is nothing at all like this one and runs very smoothly.

I have no answers to getting people between the age of 12-16 to behave properly in what is essentially an anonymous environment. I have been moderating discussion groups (email/web) for over 25 years and in my experience it always boils down to the age of the members and how topic specific the forum is, which is why there is no general discussion forum or threads allow here in this forum.

Proper behavior can only be influenced when older more mature people participate and set an example. There are a few here in the forum that do so, however the problem is compounded by the fact that the 17-21 year olds who might set a positive example want nothing to do with the 12-16 year olds so won’t participate. I am only one person and as the moderator and admin am the quintessential representation of the boundaries and rules they are trying to push. 12-16 is not normally considered the age of reason.

I will leave this topic open until later this evening at which time it will be locked mainly because, in essence, it is off topic.

Cool word.

But anyways yeah, most the kids here are 12-16 so yes, Dennis is right about the age group thing, generally speaking of course, because not all 14 yr olds are idiots and not all 19 yr olds are that mature.

I believe that two years or so there were much, much more people who could 'handle' themselves on a forum than there are now. Ever since yoyorast finished his map I think that was where it all went downhill.

Off topic?? I started the topic, it's in a general discussion forum! How can it be regarded as off topic and why the desire to close it?

Or is it that you don't much like constructive criticism with regard to your forum?

It's easy to blame the younger members of the forum, but some of the comments that prompted me to start this topic were actually made by the more 'senior' members. We all accept that some of the less mature members will make comments out of place and likely to offend at least one demographic group, but when there are senior members who are also capable of immature conduct and not moderated fairly, you have zero chance of setting an example to the younger readers.

I have two simple suggestions (before this thread is closed for being here)...

1 - Don't talk down to those who are just starting out - they're not stupid - they just don't know.
2 - Ensure that the moderation team deals with members who make unhelpful 'suggestions'.

There really isn't as much "noob" bashing as there are on other forums here. Halomaps has a rather tame ammount compaired to most forums i have seen.

But the big reasons why this forum is lasting so long is.

We have a great admin in Dennis, he has the experience and knows how to run this place perfectly. I think having one admin is actually a good thing here, there isn't a ballance of power to deal with as in forums with many admins/moderators.

Also there are so many people doing so many fantastic things. the more projects people are making, the more people are interested in halo ce, and the more there is to talk about. Forums can't survive without people doing things to give users things to talk about.

btw yes it is off topic. Off topic is anything that isn't about a halo ce project here.

Black you just don't understand halomaps enviroment. Dennis is very fair, there are been several long term members suspended for the same reasons as newer members.
Edited by Rm860 on Sep 2, 2008 at 04:52 PM

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

Oh, and no one here gets special treatment. I can attest to that.

The reason why he is closing this done is because Dennis doesn't want a offtopic or generally anything not pertaining to the topic at hand. Although this is a general discussion forum, this is for Halo CE. The other is for Halo 2 Vista. There is no REAL general discussion forum (aka Offtopic forum) Because most people here can't handle it. So he said he wouldn't make a forum for it.

That's the reason why he is locking this topic.

Black hasn't been posting enough to really understand this place. You should be more active being getting all judgemental.

Heck i don't want an off topic form either. i have aggred with Dennis on all decisions except when he had the dust bunny invade the forums. =)

buddy, i have to say, you made some good points in your first post, but look. halo CE general discussion thread.

yes it is when its mainly them

mind telling us who? a list maybe? and reasons why please (because i dont want my name to show up on there for picking apart your post).
the only person that comes to mind at the moment is selentic. he gives criticism but in such a way that the kids on the forum take it as an insult and fall back on bickering.

you are right, to an extent. its not that they just dont know, its that they dont just not know. because the forum is made up of 12-16 year olds, you can see that children would have a hard time controlling themselves. they are naturally impatient, they do not understand what dedication is. they ask a question and want an answer that makes sense to them and is easy to do. when they get a response such as "go look up some tutorials" they have to actually work now, which makes them angry, to they fall back on childish arguing.

with you 100% on this. all the stupid spam posts advancebo (dont want to single you out or anything, but the "NU" thing is what comes to mind at the moment since i said that today) is a good example. dee is another (again, just saying what comes to mind)
also the bandwagoning is something i would like to address as someone who has seen it happen to people. the younger members do, to an extent, look up to the older members. when a senior member "crits" a younger member's work, xfire battles sometimes ensue. then one of them will bring someone up such as kid or dsalimander. then the senior member bashes them and the younger member, who can now side with the senior member, joins in. WHO CAN HONESTLY SAY that they have had a personal beef with kidd or dsalimander? who here actually hates them because of something that they did to you. im not talking about them attacking you after you bandwaggoned against them either (corvette...). i want honesty here, since i will almost definitely be able to remember whether you have personal experience or not
oh by the way, its only dennis that moderates because he runs halomaps off of a UXB server, and the contracts that he has signed with many of his clients state that he will not give administration access to the UXB servers to any non UXB employee.

Wow nice going, you just described 10 - 13 not 12 - 16. In other words, I disagree, most kids are capable at controlling themselves easily. They just chose not to because its over the internet and no one can really do anything about it. Also tons of kids understand what dedication is they just sometimes rather have a human walk them through step by step, because individualized learning is the best learning. Can't argue with the childish arguing though.

believe me, iv tried to educate 14 year olds, and the amount of braincells they have may just be surpassed by how high they can count on their hands, NOT TO MENTION that there are alot of 10-13 year olds on here too. i think i worded that wrong. they do know what dedication is, they just dont practice it. its too much work, they dont want to do it. i deal with people older than me who dont show any dedication whatsoever. i have no reason to continue helping them, yet if i stop helping them, they yell and carry on. the only reason i help them is that some people can hack, and the last thing i need is getting my ass e-jumped.

I have an answer to the question about how the forums lasted so long: Dennis. Without a mod as dedicated as Dennis, then the forums would be empty by now.

It's off topic because it doesn't have to do with Halo CE - it has to do with the deplorable behavior of some of the people here.

The first thing that comes to mind is the display of stupidity I saw last night. Kidd posted a topic, inviting people to play on a dedicated server. A friendly invitation, no insults. One guy says that the maps suck - and three or four other guys follow up with the same frickin' thing. Seriously, was that even called for? You don't like it, keep your filthy suck shut and go post somewhere else. No one is forcing you to play with him. Crap like that is what screws this community.
Edited by drillinstructor on Sep 2, 2008 at 06:25 PM

First of all, you need to look up the definition of constructive criticism. Second of all, this is a general HALO CE discussion forum, not an off topic forum, and third of all, if you even read his post you would know exactly how Dennis feels about constructive criticism. You are what I call the Demi- Efool. An Efool is the 12-16 year olds Dennis mentioned, and a Demi-Efool is a 12-16 year old who considers himself better than the other Efools, and therefore makes unnecessary rants like the one you started this topic for for the purpose of trying to prove that he is in fact, not an Efool.

^ and spam like that.......

Nothing is wrong with being younger, age doesn't always equal maturity.

i'm (CENSORED) years old

and i'm sometimes more mature than some older members...

NOTE THE WORD SOMETIMES

but yeah what he said age doesn't = maturity level

I was 12 last year, and more mature then some people here.

he has the maturity of a two-year-old

anyways...

i see no further need for this topic

Wow you so stole my line. Do you know me on xfire or are you just some random person that happens to say the same thing I do?


Also I am turning 16 in like 7 days, and I can be mature if I want to be. Normally though if there is an A**hole talking crap I do enjoy responding and watching them try to make a comeback, Sorry, but i find that entertaining and at least I admit it lol.
Edited by Falcon on Sep 2, 2008 at 07:07 PM

he probably took that from a show on cartoon network (in fact i know thats where he got it from... or im pretty sure)

because they had a character named cheese who says... "i like cheeeese"

The only reson this place lasted so long was becuase of Dennis, the ultra auesome guy who made this site.

Well thats just wonderful, now I have to find a new phrase. Anyways I agree Higuy. Dennis you do a wonderful job here.

I am 23, i have no problems with most of the younger people here.

i noticed >:|
and wtf, 16? your just about a year older than me. im sorry, thats just a real shocker that we actually have mature people my age here

this doesnt tell us jack....

there was no spam there. seriously...
Edited by Donut on Sep 2, 2008 at 07:33 PM

This is somewhat off-topic but I've been wondering for a while why it is a rule that we aren't supposed to act as moderators. I don't mean have special rights or anything, I just wonder if it's so wrong to set someone straight, possibly by quoting a rule or two. I'm guessing it's because some people couldn't properly handle "setting someone straight," but if done properly, is it so wrong?

It's called memberizing. As a general rule don't do it and if it's that big of a problem pm Dennis with the link.

Did you mean memorizing? Whether you did or not I'm not sure I understand your post.

if you correct them they will most likely start insulting you endlessly untill dennis bans them. Just fyi :P .



lol yes, like the Marines commercial go, The few, The Proud. Pretty sad i remember that commercial.
Edited by Falcon on Sep 2, 2008 at 07:40 PM

Yes, I meant Memberizing. Sound the word out loud slowly. Then you will find it's basically acting like the "parent" or in this case the 'moderator" when it is not your position to do anything but post constructive criticism.



Let the witch trials begin :D

If done correctly the person being corrected shouldn't be upset.

i wouldnt call that memberizing, i would call that forum guerrilla warfare

As much as Dennis deserves the credit, keep in mind there are other forces at work, as I recall Dennis mentioning earlier:

Off the top of my head I can say Maniac is one of the nicest members around here, not only is he giving helpful advice and what not, but he HELPS those that request his help. Teaching them personally and steps in to help pacify fights. (This is good!)

There are several other people like Maniac lurking around too, just keep your eyes open and they should make themselves apparent fairly easily.

Also the person who made this topic, he mentioned that even though people ask the same questions over and over, we should help them anyway. Very true that, look at Dennis. Whenever someone asks the FAQ type questions like 'how do I make maps.' Dennis and sometimes other members are quick to post the general helpful links.

So although there are alot of negative forces in the works on this forum, don't forget that there are many positive ones around, even if they are in the minority.

However it should be noted that we shouldn't be talking about this. No, we should be putting this into ACTION and standby these actions even if those we are trying to help, disregard us or even proceed to flame us. They are just words anyway and shouldn't really be taken so personally. Eventually they will realise their mistake and hoepfully this relisation will make them a better person; after all you set them the example...

Think Gaurdian will realize his mistake? Had to say that. But I think a good solution is to edit their bad post into something really nice, that way they will just get fed up and leave. I know that would take a lot of time, but its just a suggestion.