Masterz has said he garnered the idea of savage covenant from the savage locust from Gears of War 3. If you are unfamiliar with the games, than I will inform you that the savage locust were only savage in the sense of their combat style/weaponry choices (and preferences in general combat apparel). They weren't necessarily insane, or at least no more than usual, but simply more dangerous and unpredictable due to the desperation caused by excessive losses to Humanity and the Lambent. Now if you take my previous paragraph and replace the word Locust with Covenant and the word Lambent with Flood, you will generally have an idea of what to expect from the late game savage covenant. This doesn't mean they throw all their philosophies completely out the window, but that they become more desperate, unpredictable, and prone to improv concerning weapons and garb. While we likely won't see elites using shotguns, we WILL probably see them using sentinel beams, brute shots, or maybe even jackal shields, perhaps? Maybe we'll even see a power armor elite or two, depending on how far Masters wants to go when it comes to changing up the gameplay in the later levels. We might see grunt suicide squads or maybe cloaked grunts, jackals with explosive plasma tanks on their backs, or other types of high risk improvisational combat tactics. Or maybe we'll encounter elites who have no shield generators that initially berserk and charge when they see you. I'm really just speculating here, if it wasn't obvious, but I'm pretty certain that the idea of savage covenant is just to introduce some real humm-dingers when it comes to gameplay situations, in order to surprise the player and keep them on their toes. Masters isn't here to rough up anybody's baby, even though he could if he really wanted to. And who doesn't like to be surprised and challenged, especially towards the end of the game?



Edited by Delicon20 on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:35 PM

Your post has so many ideas. I like it :). And the M247 could be in it's turret form in part 1 of SPV3 as a support weapon. And since flood will use "all" weapons, including long range weapons their going to be a pain to fight.
Ranged and Sniper Weapons:
Battle Rifle
DMR
Sniper Rifle
Particle Carbine
Focus Carbine
Impaler.
Edited by Spartan_234 on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:49 PM
Edited by Spartan_234 on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:53 PM

The plan right now (and it's all prototyped as well) is that flood forms retain characteristics of their host species. Human Forms prefer ranged weaponry and work in groups to fire from afar, brute forms rush in and use stock behaviors, elite forms use more advanced weapon functions and have energy shields which also retains some hide and seek behaviors.

Delicon is pretty much spot on in what he has said, although there is no current plans to bring things any more complicated than giving them human weapons. I do want to bring back the blood stained elite armor we had in SPV1 though. That was pretty awesome looking.

Give us a pic of those SPV1 elites and we can speculate.
Flood with Rocket Launchers are a pain, with brute shots not sure though. Since there won't be a Fuel Rod Gun in SPV3 you could experiment with a plasma based explosive instead. And can flood use the sniper rifle and impaler?

I've been meaning to ask for a while, what is the Impaler? Is it similar to the needle rifle-like weapon in ASCM (That bungie totally didn't steal) or is it something different?

I believe it's a needle-based sniper rifle.

it has to be at least loosely based off the ASCM variant I'd imagine, seeing as they share the same name. How CMT has altered it for their campaign, however, is currently not public knowledge.

Super-Short version, your guess is as good as any of ours.

I remember watching the SPV3 Trailer Breakdown and Masterz's guest pointed out a weapon that hadn't been revealed yet, but a brute was wielding it. It looked as if it was a type of pistol, I'll have to re-watch the video to be sure. So, it's possible it's the Impaler, but maybe not probable.

Besides, I'm starting to doubt that the Impaler is a Rifle considering we already have the DMR, BR, Sniper Rifle, Focus Carbine, and Particle Carbine, a variety of long-ranged weaponry. And since Brute weapons have a tendency to be up-close and personal, the Impaler might be among the lines of the Spiker or Mauler.

Just some thoughts
Edited by RabbitFood on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:33 AM

(EDIT) While re-watching the Trailer Breakdown, during B40 the player is shot by something that COULD be the impaler. We don't actually see the gun, but Masterz says the weapon hasn't been shown yet, so that's a possibility. In the end, all we have is speculation.
Edited by RabbitFood on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:58 AM

Maybe that new brute weapon won't be called the Impaler.
Besides the covenant do need a sniper rifle even though they have the particle carbine and focus carbine. And I remember masterz said something about a hammerburst spiker and ravager?
Edited by Spartan_234 on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:59 AM

But these are all marksman rifles, (with the exception of the sniper rifle), weapons which fall into a category between assault rifles and sniper rifles. The Impaler, I'm fairly certain, is to be a sniper rifle. They were using a Covenant rifle icon for it on the loadout menu, but can't seem to locate the image now.
Edited by Echo77 on Aug 17, 2014 at 01:57 AM

I know what you're talking about. The image on the loadout menu was the Focus Carbine, I believe. But you're saying it's a placeholder?

Uhhh that's because the prophets were treacherous and only allowed the Covenant to remain together for so long for personal gain and maintaining their absolute power over a vast empire. They never carried the extreme sense of honor the Sangheili did. And yes, a Sangheili /would/ meet up with his fellows and continue to use his hands, unless one of his comrades were kind enough to lend him a weapon to use. If he were to return to his allies bearing a human weapon, they would probably kill him. Understand this, for this is how the attitudes of the elites work. Some of their behaviors and "codes of honor" are far from practical, but they stick true to them, as it is a matter of life or death in their world, and one thing the elites consider worse than death is being dishonored, therefore, a respectable suicide is often times used as justification for an act that would bring upon shame to an elite, his culture, or his people or direct clan or family.
Edited by Bungie LLC on Aug 17, 2014 at 04:29 AM

I'm not sure why we are still talking about this. The Elites will never wield human weapons in any project I work on. We don't need to beat this dead horse.

Seems a little impractical....since the H2 brutes wielded shotguns, the h3 elites could drive warthogs, and the Hr covy used a multitude of stuff in firefight.

The Focus Carbine is going to be a long ranged shield stripper, but it can stun enemies when it hits their flesh. I would say it's a noob combo from afar. Particle Carbine good for taking out shields and poping headshots, bodyshots not so much.
Impaler remains unknown.

Nostalgia aside, Halo 2's enemies were incredibly imbalanced. Fighting a brute on legendary was like fighting a Hunter in halo 1 without the plasma rifle, back melee or shotgun trick.

I'm not beating a dead horse, I'm making a point. Relax.

Also, brutes and jackals would also not wield or utilize human weapons while operating amongst the Covenant, because as I said before, it was viewed as heresy, and was punishable by death. Freelancing jackal pirates, and perhaps rogue or heretic groups of brutes might make use of such weaponry and tools on their own time away from the Covenant, but while amidst their ranks, they were strictly prohibited by using the enemies tools and technology for themselves, even though the prophets might have done it in secret a few times, or whatever other underlying reason there might be.
Edited by Bungie LLC on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:06 PM

But the Brutes did use human shotguns while operating amongst the Covenant in Halo 2, and in Halo 3 you could see that Brute Banshee pilots fell from their craft clutching battle rifles. Grunts and Jackals weren't as devout in their beliefs as the Elites.

In any case, just because "officially," something is not to be done, even under supposed penalty of death, does not mean that everyone will follow this rule in the field. To refer back to the Imperial Japanese (the most devout and dogmatic realworld military I can think of), they were under both standing orders and a moral obligation (in addition to the belief that the Americans would torture and kill them) to fight to the death and to commit suicide if captured, and yet we ended up with numerous Japanese prisoners of war over the course of WWII. Just because you have a faction supposedly comprised entirely of dogmatic warriors who would rather die than be dishonored doesn't mean that every single individual in this faction upholds these same beliefs, because large groups of sentient beings don't all fit neatly into the same cookie cutter mold.


Because your interpretation of the canon promotes discussion of the Halo universe in general. So far, no one is demanding that the Elites be armed with human weaponry in your campaign. They're just discussing the validity of such a scenario. I feel like this should be a good sign that people are interested and actually care about the modifications being made, and should be less concerning than if the exchange were more akin to:
"Hey, we're making a change to how things are normally done in Halo."
"Cool. *no further discussion, possibly due to lack of any real interest *"
Edited by Echo77 on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:32 PM

The new rocket hog looks great, although I saw 3 sides on the turret instead of four?
Brute Followers: Replace the standard minor, major and ultra.
Brute Leaders: Replace the brute captain minors, major and ultra.

so there are no longer any brute chieftain ranks?

There are chieftain ranks, I'm just talking about standard brute infantry. And brute stalkers.

We don't have actual stalkers, our power armored brutes just use the stalker armor. The ranks for brutes as is follows.

Follower: Minor, Major
Leader: Minor, Major
Boss (Power armor): minor, major
Chieftain

Very well then. I don't disagree with what you've said, but as far as brute banshee pilots wielding battle rifles in Halo: 3, this was just a development glitch or an overlook.

A better point of argument you could've used was the fact that brutes used the bubble shield in Halo: 3, something that I just remembered as I was typing this response. The bubble shield was human hardware, and I remember the Encyclopedia stating that the brutes were not shy to the aspect of using "commandeered human technology in the field," like the bubble shield.

Also, I don't mean to cause any frustration, if that's the case at all.

Okay. The Chieftains in SPV3 are more like Halo Reach Cheiftains with the regenarating shields and a mix design of halo 3 for the armor.

do they posses unique weapons like a grav hammer? (i dont think there has ever been an ai using grav hammers)

or atleast FRG's like H3 war chieftains?

The thing you and Echo should probably understand though, for future reference, is that CMT uses their own version of canon, and they make up their own story as they go, sacrificing lore for gameplay. So therefore there's really no point in arguing canon here, seeing as CMT honestly doesn't give too much of a damn about breaking lore if it means creating fun gameplay situations for the player to experience. Thankfully for you though Masters doesn't like the idea of elites using human weapons, so that won't happen. But if CMT ever makes a change to the story for the sake of gameplay that you find unflattering, you should just be aware that no argument you make that refers to Halopedia or any other halo lore source will be considered a valid argument, because at the end of the day gameplay will trump lore in terms of priority, as it always should.

In short, CMT doesn't really care about breaking the canon, they care about gameplay (that's not to say they will break the halo feel though, so you shouldn't worry), so next time you'd probably be better off just letting it go, rather than stirring up a lore debate.

It was a pretty informative lore debate though, great performances everyone, internet cookies for all.

I'm interested in how this will affect the pacing of c10 (did I get that right :P). The way the level plays out, first there are only infection forms which you knew were coming. Then elite combat forms break down the door (new enemy). Their bodies are mangled enough so that you can't tell they were once elites unless you look closely at their vestigial heads (which can be shot off). It's only later in the level that you see human combat forms and the implications are painfully obvious.

Since brute forms will retain stock behaviors, maybe they should break down the door in the initial encounter? It makes sense for multiple reasons.


On the subject of c10, you've said that you want the flood's behavior to focus on the infection process. Obviously, this means many 3 way-encounters designed such that the flood win, turning it into a two-way encounter whilst allowing you to see the infection (or prevent it, gameplay decision!).

Unfortunately, the most easily infect-able units are the humans who get very little screen-time in this level. One could add live humans to the level's interior, but that would break the theme.

Another option is to customize the final exterior section where you hold out with marine survivors; make it longer.

Alternatively, I consider canonical accuracy top-priority when creating content, be it a level, weapon, an idea for a figment of writing or a story, or any other object or idea. Gameplay takes a back seat for me when it comes to things such as being accurate to a franchise's canon and overall general realism.

So, if canonical accuracy and realism is being sacrificed for the sake of gameplay, then maybe CMT just isn't my thing. The stuff that comes from them sure does look nice though, that's for sure.

The reason why you never see gravity hammers for AI is that there is no way to have the effect play at a key point in the melee animation. I was considering a sort of brute battle axe type thing at one point, but I doubt we will ever integrate that now that our new "melee enemy" is the honor guards, and making the 3p animations correct for the axe/hammer is also complex as the swing has to be timed correctly and move correctly to be fun and dodgeable. Chieftains currently use hunter weapons and later in the game, the rocket launcher.

We have our own cannon which sticks pretty close to what is established, every game has somehow violated or bent the cannon in some way or another, and we really aren't that different. Everything we do has some form of backstory for it, let it be why brutes and elites are on the battlefield together, why some species have taken up human weapons, or our revised take on the flood. For example, in our lore, the brutes get hand me down weapons that have been retired by the elites, this includes weapons like the BPR, BPP, and our unannounced spiker replacement which the Elites view as outdated.

We have some cool plans for marines and the flood... you should all have a better idea of that once the UUI releases and we can't keep certain things secret anymore.
Edited by Masters1337 on Aug 17, 2014 at 04:24 PM
Edited by Masters1337 on Aug 17, 2014 at 04:31 PM

Some people like to argue about yellow stripes on UNSC small arms and whether or not Covenant weapons are painted or made of colored alloy. Some people like to argue about how many scratches the inside of the Pillar of Autumn should have. I like to discuss what things make sense in a particular universe.

CMT is modifying the canon, but they are still working with the default campaign, and there are elements of the canon that they are retaining. Ultimately, they're still aiming to create a Halo game, and that is why I compare their approach to doing things to what I know of the Halo universe. I figure it's as valid a subject of constructive criticism as things like animations, textures, and models are, because none of those things have a significant effect on gameplay, either. Models, animations, textures, lore: it's all just the shiny, colorful wrapping paper the gameplay comes packaged in.
Edited by Echo77 on Aug 17, 2014 at 04:43 PM

Translation: D30 "The Commander" will have a complete description in the next UUI update.

It will probably also take place in a desert, lest B30:E or the library have desert sections.

And D25 too, that means if things go according to plan.
And will C10 have any new areas?

I don't think canon and realism is as good a philosophy for a video game as gameplay and aesthetic surrealism, but we all have our opinions. I also highly doubt your going to have a problem with SPV3 at the end of the day, but we'll have to just wait and see on that one.



Edited by Delicon20 on Aug 17, 2014 at 05:38 PM

I wonder if SPV3 will include subtitles with the CMT Extra's.

I'm not sure if there will be any CMT Extras anymore.
Just Doing Something:
Ghost (Plasma/Needler)-Gungoose ?
Warthogs (LAAG/Rocket/Gauss)-Shadow (Shade/Fuel Rod)
Grizzly-Wraith (Plasma Motor/Fuel Rod)
Hawk-Banshee
Mantis?
Pelican-Phantom