That's probably the problem. If it was designed by someone who had bass boost speakers connected, then they probably designed it to those specs. It would have been smarter to design it so that it would have a punch on standard, non-boosted speakers.

Interior looks lovely. Gameplay's decent too, but then again its also a fairly straight forward encounter.

Yes needs like a billion ennemies to force the player to hide.

You can't force it... you have to just give 'em a nudge.

Not even that, it just looks horrendous as hell. So did the Halo 1 Shotgun anims but these are even worse.

I wasn't being serious. I like the shotgun and the animations are fine.

lol I like how you donjt even need to reload to shoot the shotgun fast

To know that, you may require a reading monocle ;)

ok, well this has been on my mind a while, what is happening with the grunts?
I remember seeing a custom grunt model in one of the early spv3 T and R vidocs, yet in everything I've seen, you're still using the originals, so...?

^Exactly what 343 did for Spartan Ops

So I take it this is all the backlash CMT gets for releasing a bunch of gameplay. Well, it's better now rather than at the release.

We had a custom model but the person working on it went missing, we recently got in contact with him and are planning to work on it soon.

does the same go for the pelican and hunters?
(as in the same trailer there was a reference to them being non-representative, and there was a pelican model

That's all forerunner is in every game: teal&orange

And why the ripped library holos? Can't figure out how to make fancy ones yet?

And why are the opaque specular black outlines part of the diffuse? forerunner tiles need no grout :P
Edited by OrangeJuice on Jul 9, 2013 at 02:25 PM

I will be doing a full article on our forerunner design on Friday, and I will address most of this at that point. However, I do want to point out that our assets have been aimed at primary gameplay; guns, particles, and playable areas. A lot of polish-level assets, like new holograms, have not yet been made. As such, we picked a few from The Library to spice up this bsp for the gameplay video. In all likelihood those will either be different holograms or something totally different for the final.

I don't think the textures are as grey or "grouty" as you think, but again, I will be looking at this topic in detail on Friday.

simply brushing off criticism with "do it yourself, then" isn't that optimal either. neither is saying "this is how we're doing it, we don't care about what anyone else thinks because this isn't debatable".

also, to simply declare that something does not make sense is an absolute waste of creativity. for example, Starcraft 2's protoss use an alloy to get their famous golden/silver blue armor, and they don't go with the excuse of "different coloured metal makes no sense, let's just call it paint". to also say that using different metals for different guns is also BS, since not all guns IRL are made of the same material. there are plastic guns, aluminum guns, titanium guns, copper guns, gold guns, etc. the scratched paint does look horrid, because it isn't characteristic of the alien cleanliness portrayed by the covenant, rather it portrays the lazy human paint job at a car wreck.

with everything you have, you have the ability to go above and beyond what is normally possible with the default engine, and you are literally unlimited with what you can come up with, and the best you could do is "it's scratched off paint"? for a group that brushes canon aside, you sure are willing to conform to the modern brown FPS laws rather than letting yourself be as creative as possible. might as well get rid of the elite's split chin, that surely doesn't make sense either, right? what about the halo's atmosphere, nothing is explained there so that doesn't make sense too, right? face it: "Doesn't make sense" is just a lazy excuse to use poor design choices that, from what I see, only 2 people agree with.

also, I believe that at one point in halo lore the covie metal was described as chitin, from beetles. surely, there can't be different-coloured beetles in the world, right? that wouldn't make sense. I'm sure dano would agree to that, too.


it isn't that I'm against you or have a grudge. I appreciate your work and support your project. it's your thought process, and how you limit yourselves to unreasonable design choices. there is just so much more you could do.

[removed image, apparently nobody cares]
Edited by master noob on Jul 9, 2013 at 08:47 PM

It's not optimal to try and appease everyone. If they like what they've done, and it doesn't look terrible, then there's no reason that they should have to change it, and not changing it doesn't mean they're being ignorant of criticism.

It doesn't make sense for a faction to use an array of multi-colored metals in their infantry weapons just for the sake of color. There is one functional plastic gun to my knowledge, which is a single-shot pistol that breaks after a few shots. Titanium is not an easy material to work with (nor is it cheap), certainly not to the point that you would make an entire gun out of it. Copper is really only suitable for airguns. Gold is a soft metal that is not suited to firearm construction at all. Granted, you can make guns that have parts consisting of these materials, but the point still stands: if you're churning out thousands upon thousands of infantry weapons, you would want to make them out of as many similar materials as possible to streamline the production process. The Covenant, in all their technological superiority, probably possess some form of paint, and would apply this paint to whatever alloy their weapons are made out of. This simply makes sense. "Alien cleanliness" is all well and good, but a war is not a clean environment.

They have the ability to go above and beyond the capabilities of the default engine, and you are arguing over something as trivial as paint versus colored metal. Halo's atmosphere is described in "Halo: The Essential Visual Guide" as "1 (N2, O2)".

Covenant alloy is described as being similar to chitin, but it does not come from beetles. Beetles, being full of genetic variation and inhabiting a wide array of environments in which they must adapt to, can be many different colors. A specific mixture of metals well-suited to the construction of a weapon will tend to be more or less the same color every single time.
Edited by Echo77 on Jul 9, 2013 at 05:17 PM

I'm with Masternoob on this one, which isn't a common occurrence. We're talking about an advanced Empire made up of multiple alien races who have been endlessly studying and worshipping ancient forerunner technology (example being the Dreadnaught in High Charity) from which they created even more advanced technology than they were previously capable of, and you're saying painted metal makes sense for their weapon design? That makes absolutely zero sense, and as Master Noob said, it's very lacking in creativity, and it shows in the weapon designs. Covenant weapons are supposed to instill a sense of awe and mystery in the player, and colored paint instills neither
Edited by Delicon20 on Jul 9, 2013 at 05:15 PM

but then why apply so much logic and lore when canon is being abandoned? intentionally limiting creativity to lift a creative limit just doesn't add up.

Im sorry, but this is a little ridiculous. To them the idea of making the body of a many different weapons out of a bunch of different metals doesn't make sense. Guns today may have different metals in them, specific parts needing different properties to work properly, but no modern gun is entirely made out of copper or gold (excluding gold plating and other random personalized stuff that people pay extra for, that you wouldn't find on the battlefield). Most modern weapons include multiple plastics including carbon fiber, a couple steel alloys, aluminum, titanium here and there... and thats pretty much it. And any of the metals mentioned all have a silver/grey/gun metal finish.

Yes, it is possible that the metals used by the covenant are all different colors, but its more likely that they would use similar or the same alloy on all of their basic weapons that they hand out to every random soldier, instead of each individual weapon with a different alloy that is a different color.

In your opinion the scratched paint looks horrid, to other people it obviously doesn't, otherwise they would not have decided to use that particular style.

Just because they're not necessarily sticking to canon doesn't mean that nothing has to make sense. Jetpack unicorns would be creative, but that doesn't mean the Covenant should be riding them. Not to say that paint versus colored alloy is on par with the silliness of unicorns, mind you, but hopefully you see my meaning. They've made numerous creative additions in other departments, and to claim that they're uncreative due to something as trivial as to whether or not aliens use paint is silly.

too much to read... sumbody shorten this down for people with tiny attention spans?

I agree to a point with what Delicon says, that because of the advanced nature of their weapons and technology that it would definitely be possible, but considering that over the last 700+ years since the first guns were invented on earth, people are still painting metal on them... its not entirely impossible that the covenant wouldn't be doing the same thing :P

if ye look at the covie guns, they aren't all made of one metal either. point?

also, 700 years ago paint was mostly egg and chalk. I think gun painting was about 200+ years ago, maybe less.

considering that metals can change color while maintaining strength simply by changing chemical composition is a possibility, so again it doesn't have to be paint nor does it have to be different metals.

again, the sole reason I was given for their use of paint is because the metal "didn't make sense". saying that people paint their guns and all that other stuff is irrelevant because I'm giving scenarios that do make sense, seeing that there's no other reason for the paint to support and to contradict their thought that different coloured metals don't make sense.

Edited by master noob on Jul 9, 2013 at 05:40 PM

You complaints are about the main body portions of the PR, similar pieces appear on most of the covy main weapons, PR, PP, FR, Carbine, Needler, CR, NR, LR. All of them have large body portions that are coated in different colors, mostly to make them more easily distinguishable. My point is that its not out of the question that they are all made from the same metal, but with a different finish, and it perhaps is more likely, because it makes more sense to make them all out of the same metal, than to make every single weapon out of a different single metal, with a different finish and color scheme.

Nobody knows what Covenant guns are made out of, but the logical assumption would be that they are all made of the same or similar materials.

Changing the color of metal usually involves corrosion, a powder coat, or paint. Or combining it with another metal to form something else entirely (such as combining tin with copper to form brass).

No one is arguing that its impossible for them to be different metals, but that it is more likely that they are the same, instead of 10+ different metals with different finishes for each weapon in their arsenal.

Edited by Bobblehob on Jul 9, 2013 at 05:57 PM

Actually I would have to disagree on this. The covenant is made up of multiple alien races from different planets, so it would make sense that weapons used or made by certain races would be made from completely different alloys and metals from different planets. A good example would be the brute spiker versus the the plasma rifle. It would make sense that the spiker is made of metals from the Jiralhannae home planet, whilst the plasma rifle was probably created using completely different materials. It might also stand to reason that weapons would be created out of materials better suited for the type of ammunition it uses. Perhaps an automatic plasma based weapon would be built out of materials that aren't easily heated (to prevent weapon overheating), while weapons such as needle weapons and fuel rod weapons would be built with materials that better suit their functions. These attributes could allow the possibility for different colored weapon metals. It's a long shot theory, of course, but the world of scifi is built off of possible but dissmissable theories.


In short different races could make different weapons with different materials, and different weapons could be made of different materials pertaining to functionality. Not necessarily all made of one set of materials.

which is why I said they don't have to be made of different metals to have different colours. you even quoted where I said that exact thing.

In the CMT world the covenant like to coat their vehicles and weapons with certain types of metals, giving them their color and other properties. Sometimes the coating can be chipped off and exposed. Don't like it?

Yeah, I got it the first time. Lets take that and boil this argument down.

You don't like that the metal is grey on the inside, instead of the same color as the finish. And because the metal is painted instead of entirely one color all the way through, you believe they are wasting creativity... Im sorry but its ridiculous.

you clearly have little to no understanding of the argument here.

Dano and BTG2 say "it's paint because multicoloured metal makes no sense" to justify the scratches that ruin the appearance.
I give reasons why multicoloured metal makes sense, as well as provide alternative explanations to counter their statement and to provide reason why the scratches are bad and unneeded.
you think I'm arguing about what it should be made out of, the point literally lightyears over your head.

stop posting about things you don't have any idea about, it has only proven to harm what little appearance you have here.

No, I understand the argument here perfectly, its basically you going on about design choices that you don't like once again. You tell them their work looks horrid because you disagree with said design choice, and the reason that they made it. Then when people disagree with you, you make personal jabs to try and discredit them.

They decided to make it painted metal because multicolored metal makes no sense to them, and you come here and basically tell them they are stupid and are wasting their creativity because you disagree with that assessment.

This whole argument is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. It doesn't matter how many times you try to prove why your personal opinion of a design idea is the god given truth, its not going to make any difference. If more people besides you were actively complaining about that decision then it might, but as it stands no one else really cares that much.

I have been trying to be civil with you, as have most other people but its obvious that you don't intend to do the same. Also, if you want to talk about reputation, then you probably shouldn't be making personal attacks in an effort to discredit people, especially on the Internet where such things have absolutely no worth.

Listen to this man:

Edited by Bobblehob on Jul 9, 2013 at 07:39 PM

tl;dr So I haven't be here in a while. Looks like fun. I hear the covenant will have pretty colors