Quote: --- Original message by: Lestat
I will say this: if it's going to be through Steam, I am NOT interested whatsoever.

Quote: --- Original message by: Lestat
Here's essentially what Steam offers:
1.2 Storefront
-If I buy something, I would like something physical proving I bought it, thank you.
That's entirely down to personal preference and isn't really even understandable since you don't get much more from a physical copy of a game than a cheap plastic box.
1.3 Steam Community and Matchmaking
-Why do I need Steam to have friends? Most decent games have these features already.
Yes, most decent games have friends systems already. However, they're usually only local to each game itself. Steam offers a unified friends list
1.4 Steam Overlay
-There's this thing called Xfire you may or may not be aware of...
http://media.xfire.com/xfire/client/xfsite/xfire_installer.exe
Xfire sucks. Badly. Get with the times, my friend. Nobody and their old granny prefers xfire over... anything these days. Most who still use xfire do so very reluctantly to keep in touch with friends.
1.5 Big Picture mode
REDUNDANCY. MY COMPUTER ALREADY DOES THIS.
Big picture mode wasn't made for you nor was it made for me. It was made for hardware manufacturers to build consoles based on Steam.
1.6 Steamworks
-This is essentially Steam's Editing Kit. Why does this need to be included?
For people who want to edit various features of Steam. That's like saying that we don't need HEK to be included. Yeah, it's usually for devs but it's included so that anybody who wants to mess around with stuff can.
1.7 Steam Workshop
-I have this thing called an internet browser, it does the same thing but offers more control over content.
Steam Workshop does offer ease of use... but I have to concede on this one. The Nexus network is far better for mods.
1.8 Authentication
-Google "Punkbuster". You'll see how awesome Steam's security really is.
I don't think anybody seriously uses that as an example of an advantage. Neither Steam's anti-bot system nor Punkbuster are very good at all. In fact, in many ways, they both suck.
1.9 Steam Greenlight
-Xfire has this exact same thing.
http://forums.xfire.com/forumdisplay.php/11-Game-Support-Requests-Problems
Greenlight is for games, not social features. At least do a little bit of research. :/
1.10 Steam for Schools
-An excellent way to get even MORE money- take it fron the education system.
They're giving it away for free. Yeah, it's a stupid idea and would in no way contribute to education for most. But Valve is not taking any money in return for it.

Steam is useless at it's very core. It only offers simplistic options for people who don't understand the concept of computers.
Steam offers a ton of advanced settings, which you would know if you actually used it.

Quote: --- Original message by: Lestat
Sorry about my formatting, I have to use notepad to type these posts up, since the text tools like quoting or bbc have to be done manually (blame the proxies).

Jaz-
That's entirely down to personal preference and isn't really even understandable since you don't get much more from a physical copy of a game than a cheap plastic box.
-I obviously don't have a box fetish. It's called proof of purchass.
Steam sends you emails and allows you to print reciepts. The court would need nothing more since Valve can't argue with the fact that they don't give anything more. Any good lawyer should argue the point that Valve recognises this proof as sufficient.

Yes, most decent games have friends systems already. However, they're usually only local to each game itself. Steam offers a unified friends list
-Oh wow what an amazing feature that's already been done hundreds of times before in much simpler GUIs. IE Xfire.
How is Xfire a simper UI? Steam's UI is very simple. You launch it, click on the friends list, chat to someone. Xfire, you launch it, click on the friends tab, chat to someone. Not much else to it.

Xfire sucks. Badly. Get with the times, my friend. Nobody and their old granny prefers xfire over... anything these days. Most who still use xfire do so very reluctantly to keep in touch with friends.
-You say it's bad but don't give reasons. I always use Xfire and have no complaints.
I was avoiding going off topic but fine:

1. Xfire's hooking methods are very inconvenient and incompatible with other hooks. Kornmann could give you a more detailed explanation of this since he's complained about it in the past.

2. Xfire's UI is behind the times. The original UI looks outdated, in comparison to the current trends in interface styling. And the new UI is just incovenient. Some important features have been removed in favour of... nothing, really. The side panel's missing, removing the convenience of having all community updates available on the client. And chat features such as /me are missing. Skins are also being dropped. Yes, Steam's official UI's a bit outdated but nowhere near as much as Xfire's UI, plus Steam's skins system is a lot simpler and allows for many more features to be added.

3. The official forums are being ditched in order to reduce server costs. This means that a ton of news items will be difficult to be seen available by consumers.

4. Clans are difficult to administrate. Yes, many members are unaffected. However, there are a lot of clans out there and for administrators, there is a lot of inconvenience. The forums are ridiculously set up with nowhere near enough options. The news is inefficient and outdated. There's also the stupid design decision by xfire to just ditch member lists when running unlimited clans. Why they don't just run a simplified list and leave the search option in there to look through it is beyond me. There's a ton of other issues with the clan administration system but you'd have to be a regular clan admin who does the kind of things I do with clans to understand. :/ I suppose I should admit that Steam's community system isn't all that great either but then... at least Valve's improving the Steam Community constantly. Xfire rarely gets real updates.

5. A bunch of stability issues including the unnecessary use of a lot of RAM. I have 8GB RAM now but I recall that my old PC was slowed down madly by xfire.

6. Useless web browser with a bunch of video and audio issues. It's slow, outdated, supports almost no video formats, and glitches constantly. And before you tell me that a web browser is useless anyway, no it is not. I use Steam's web browser constantly in-game. It's very useful.

7. Doesn't have half as many community features as Steam for gaming.

Big picture mode wasn't made for you nor it was made for me. It was made for hardware manufacturers to build consoles based on Steam.
-So let's agree it's useless.
It may be useless for you and maybe me, but you can't say that it's useless for consoles. Steam consoles could become very popular quite easily.

For people who want to edit various features of Steam. That's like saying that we don't need HEK to be included. Yeah, it's usually for devs but it's included so that anybody who wants to mess around with stuff can.
-They make you download the stuff by default even though you may not even use it... that's great.
It takes up about 10MB or something ridiculously small like that I believe. Shouldn't be an issue. Get over it.

I don't think anybody seriously uses that as an example of an advantage. Neither Steam's anti-bot system nor Punkbuster are very good at all. In fact, in many ways, they both suck.
-Seeing as though Steam deals with credit card information, their security is definately my concern.
I'm pretty sure Punkbuster is an anti-bot system, not a bank security system. Strange comparison if you were trying to discuss financial security. Steam's financial security is just as powerful and finely configured as any other. It's highly doubtful that your credit card information could be stolen anyway considering that there are so many laws on security, which Valve complies with.

Greenlight is for games, not social features. At least do a little bit of research. :/
-Geenlight is for approving games to be supported by Steam. That's also what that thread I linked you to was for, for Xfire. At least click it.
Greenlight is for approving games to be sold on Steam's store, not just overlay support. At least research it.

They're giving it away for free. Yeah, it's a stupid idea and would in no way contribute to education for most. But Valve is not taking any money in return for it.
-Then what's the point? Most of the features Steam offers are strictly banned in the school setting.
I'm going to concede on this one. Seems a bit pointless. You shouldn't be affected though since I assume you're no longer in school.

Steam offers a ton of advanced settings, which you would know if you actually used it.
-I do use it. Because appearently it's a brilliant idea to force you to, if you want to play specific games. I hate it.
Granted, it is annoying to be forced to use any service for games. However, Steam doesn't only exist for consumers. Developers want financial security of their own and want to avoid pirates. It is not Steam's fault that those developers choose to use DRM software. If they didn't use Steam, they would just use any other DRM out there, even one that may be far worse. If you don't want to be forced to comply with DRM, don't buy those games which do force you to use DRM software.

"So, where exactly are these problems you spoke of?.. Oh well," -kirby
The problem is that Steam is useless yet we are fored to use it to play certain games. We are tricked into thinking it's useful when in fact it's just another way to jam marketing down our necks.

"Steam, I could easily deal with. Live.. Nope." -kirby
They're the same, basic, useless thing. How about "no" to both. They're offering a service that isn't neccessary. It's an AIO app for a range of things that I can already handle on my own.
Again, it isn't Steam's fault that any service is crammed down our throats. It is devs' faults. If not for Steam, you could be using far worse software. Be grateful that Steam is at least tolerable even if you don't really like it.

Quote: --- Original message by: Long Wang
I wasn't aware that Xfire hosted games for users to download and/or purchase. What, it doesn't? But then why would you compare two applications that obviously have different purposes? Oh, I see. You're just some nobody who has nothing better to do.