Hi guys,
I started modding something like 2 weeks ago, trying at least, cause I' ve spend most of the time reading tutorials and gathering infos, though i still suck!
I' ve a problem with sapien: sometimes, when i try to open a .scenario file sapien crashes after loading it, i guess its a problem related to tags (im not confident with tags yet but i noticed that if i try to open a .scenario which need a certain tag and i dont have that tag (or its not fixed) it wont load the map, am i right?).
I' m able to modify bungie multiplayer maps (like adding weapons, creating teleports and other easy stuff) but when i try with others maps (like sandtrap or the original b40 from the campaign) it crashes.
My goal is get skilled (and later on modify b40 a bit and use it as a multiplayer map) but i really dont know how to fix that tags problem or whatever it is...

i hope my english is fine :(

debug.txt.
it is in halo root directory, the last entry explains why sapien crashed.
paste it here if you need help understanding it.

Modding b40 (Assault on The Control Room) has already been done, just to let you know (I've done it a few times, so I'm not saying its a bad thing - b40 is my fave SP map, after all :3), so if you want to get good, it just takes some practice.

That said, you don't want to ruin a b40 mod by putting in bad tags (like I did on my first try >.>), so my suggestion is to acquire a good base of decent (or better) tags, then start sliding them in, bit by bit until you find the best combo of weapons, vehicles and scenery to compliment the multiplayer purpose.

Sadly, small to medium-large maps have been overshadowed by the more popular maps like Hugeass, Coldsnap, Extinction and CMT's Snow Grove.

the debug is HUGE when i try to open b40!
99% is based on missing sound tags (and bytes O_O):
here it is the begin:

03.17.11 08:46:56 sapien pc 01.00.00.0609 ----------------------------------------------
03.17.11 08:46:56 reference function: _write_to_error_file
03.17.11 08:46:56 reference address: 401b13
03.17.11 08:46:56 Couldn't read map file './sapienbeta.map'
03.17.11 08:46:56 CreateDevice succeeded with refresh rate = 0
03.17.11 08:46:56 Sound card doesn't meet minimum hardware requirements. Disabling hardware option.
03.17.11 08:46:57 Increasing sound decompression buffer size to 1048576 bytes
03.17.11 08:47:00 file_read('tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound') error 0x00000026 'Fine del file. '
03.17.11 08:47:00 couldn't read #27 bytes from offset #6505 in local tag 'tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound'
03.17.11 08:47:00 file_read('tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound') error 0x00000026 'Fine del file. '
3.17.11 08:47:00 couldn't read #41 bytes from offset #13348 in local tag 'tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound'
03.17.11 08:47:00 file_read('tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound') error 0x00000026 'Fine del file. '
03.17.11 08:47:00 couldn't read #34 bytes from offset #19756 in local tag 'tags\sound\dialog\elite\conditional\combat2\idlenoncombat\idlenoncombat.sound'

here it is the end (after something like thousands of line like those up here^):
03.17.11 08:47:42 failed to load sound tag 'sound\dialog\b40\b40_extract_190_cortana'
03.17.11 08:47:42 file_read('tags\sound\dialog\b40\b40_extract_200_cortana.sound') error 0x00000026 'Fine del file. '
03.17.11 08:47:42 couldn't read #41 bytes from offset #8755 in local tag 'tags\sound\dialog\b40\b40_extract_200_cortana.sound'
03.17.11 08:47:42 failed to load sound tag 'sound\dialog\b40\b40_extract_200_cortana'
03.17.11 08:47:43 failed to load scenario tag 'levels\b40\b40'
03.17.11 08:47:43 need to get the following tags:
03.17.11 08:47:43
03.17.11 08:47:43 game_load() failed.



man, i fully understand you!
-b40 is my favorite map aswell :3
-of course i dont want to ruin it :3 so thanks for the suggestion
-my main goal was just use the original as a a slay-covenant-but-do-it-with-friends map xD but of course i can go on and add other stuff after that
- i know it has alredy been done (cmt version is pretty cool), but ivent finded yet a good multiplayer version of it

btw i need to open it to get started xD

thanks for the help!
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 17, 2011 at 04:18 AM

then it seems im not missing tags =|
i have just a empty line in that position.

the situation is:
-ive ripped b40, im sure ive ripped all the tags using hek+
-the problem seems to be related to the sound folder (in the tags folder)
-ive checked some references with guerrila (and the sound folder itself) and everything seems fine, no missing tags or wrong references, but sapien keep crashing.
-it seems that sapien isn' t able to read those tags, the debug has hundred of thousands of line like this: couldn't read #39 bytes from offset #27094 in local tag 'tags\sound... etc

idk whats wrong!

do i have to fix something with guerrila before to use sapien?

could this problem be related to the fact that b40 is singleplayer and i have to remove single player stuffs (like checkpoint, dialogs etc) before opening the map?

Your sound tags are corrupt. Like gamma would say, recursively extract the scenario.

sorry i dont get it xD
you mean ive to rip the map again with hek+ and keep doing it till when sapien works?

Just wondering, did you rip b40 from PC, or CE?

done, and the txt is empty, you were right, at least now i know what ive to fix.

edit: stupid me, i didnt even ask: i guess i have to check "overwrite existing files" isnt it?


ripped from halo combat evolved (you call it PC right?).


can i download an original b40 somewhere? just in case mine is corrupted or something like that.

btw if i dont find any other way im gonna rip a modified b40 SP, I' ve found many so i guess i can try to use one which is unprotected and has just a few tags different from the original.
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 17, 2011 at 02:46 PM

If you have the original disk, you can just reinstall any corrupted/missing files that are in your PC (Combat Evolved) folder.

The reason why I asked is because some modified maps have corrupted tags in them, and therefore make any tags you rip from them unusable. Which is why I always recommend ripping any SP/MP maps from PC FIRST before ripping from CE. This cuts down on the amount of corrupted tags that anyone can get.

i cant reinstall halo pc, its a long story but thats it :(
tomorrow im gonna try some downloaded b40, cant think anything else.

btw, i know that ripped tags can bring a lot of trouble, but i thought that a good amount of broken tags can be fixed with guerrila... about that, i cant fix the bruteshot from the map sandtrap (i dont want to open a new tread), its frustating for me keep asking "how do i do that" but i really am a newbie here,
so ive this bruteshot, i can place it on sapien as a netgame equip but i cant use it in the game (it appears like a rock would do), ive noticed (using guerrila) that the brute shot.weapon doesnt have a collision geometry so i tried to give it the original flametrower one, but still nothing. atm i just try random solutions when i have problems like this, suggestions? (please)

thanks again everyone,
*waiting for the day in the which ill help others too xD*
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 17, 2011 at 04:26 PM
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 17, 2011 at 04:33 PM

strange,you can add the weapon in sapien but can't pick it up?

GreenFace: You don't wait for that day to come, to take it by force.

exactly, and when im over it no message appears (like press E to...).
no one here has tried out that tag?




sure, i want to do my best! thx


btw as soon as i have enough free time im gonna try to rip a sort of original b40 i found in this site

did you add the weapon as an item_collection?

yes

game data>netgame quipment>right click>[...]>i choose that item collection from the correct folder (aka item collections>single weapons)

that .item_collection references to a .weapon file which is not in the main weapons folder because hek+ ripped it in that way (just to be more specific it is in tags/halo3/weapons/brute shot (halo3 is the folder created by hek+) but i know its fine cause ive other weapons ripped from the same maps (like spartan laser) that has that kind of reference and are just fine)
opening the .weapon with guerrila everything seems fine, the references are correct (except for that collision geometry i talked, is it necessary or its just optional?)

it needs to have a collision geometry.

ok thx, can i use collision geometry from other weapons or it has to be specific for that one?

to be honest,i'm not sure about that,unless someone else replys
then i would say just open the weapon tag in guerilla and try different weapon collisions.

edit: or you can get the bruteshot tag from this map...
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5714
Edited by ally on Mar 18, 2011 at 07:10 AM

thanks, im gonna try it

goodluck man,i'm logging off for a while.

You can download the b40 tags on the site, just do a search for b40 tags.
I find that when you start modding/mapping, it's good to just mess around with an SP level until you create a version that doesn't work, this way you can find the limits on what you can do to a level.

when you set the netgame_equipment in sapien, did you set it for "allgames"?

about b40: just realized what' s the problem (or what it could be)
as you can guess im not english, and my halo pc isnt aswell, and i had problem with sounds tags only (and i really guess that language is the only thing changed when exporting games to a foreign country), so it seems that my b40 version isnt fine for CE.

i' ll try to use sounds tags from other b40 (this one seems fine: http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1702 )

if it doesnt work ill just go on rampage and ill rip all the b40 ill find, one by one, till when ill open one... ive tried a few like the one i linked but i had problems, so im just going to try that sound stuff and then ill let you know.


@olly: thx for the suggestions! im gonna do that when ill open a b40

@maniac: yes sir! otherwise it wouldnt appear.
the brute shot problem is just marginal at the moment, and if i cant fix the one from sandtrap i can use another one (even if the sandtrap one is my favorite, i love it cause the projectile is highly affected by gravity, so you can use it as a mortar, useless due to low precision? yes... but funnyyyy! xD)

edit: doesnt work :( im not even sure of the sound stuff anymore, cause after replacing those sapien wasnt able to read vehicles/characters and some other tags, i replaced them but still nothing...
question: what if a kindhearted uploads somewhere a b40 from an english haloPC?
or a b40 with no missing tags, i dont know, how frustrating!!!

important edit: reinstalled CE and HEK,
im now able to open the b40 just linked up here =)
now there is just one thing i have to solve or understand (after this i can start adding weapons, AI by myself), when i open it with sapien i can see just a part of the level (like a 20%-30%) the rest is black, i would like to mod the whole level....

Edited by GreenFace on Mar 18, 2011 at 01:00 PM
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 18, 2011 at 02:09 PM
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 18, 2011 at 04:21 PM

Ah, now that is just because you're in the first BSP that sapien decided to open. To change to a different BSP, press Ctrl+B, and select the BSP you want to go to (usually the level follows in the order that it shows up) and the camera'll automatically relocate to the new BSP.

Wooot thanks UBE chief!
*feeling powerful* xD

ok last thing (really this time)
i know that if i want to use it as a multiplayer map i've to use guerrila to change that,
but i guess that before compiling i've to remove all that stuff which is related to SP only, like videos, comments, check points (i don't know the precise terms cause i'm not using sapien atm) and also remove weapons and use netgame equip.

the question is: what doesn't need to be removed?
controls which open gates/doors? (that would be cool)
munitions?
can i use weapon rather than netgame equip if i dont want the respawn effect? (even if i can go round that increasing respawn time).
and finally: i guess i can't change the spawn point in mp, right? like having a short of check point, i don't think that's possible, but im gonna ask anyway: how can i solve the fact that when one dies it has to restart from the begin of the map? unsolveble isn't it? well, its gonna be more challenging!!!

Just call me Chief, lol. And as for the modding SP into MP - considering I've done a few of those, I can absolutely help :3

---

Controls can stay, although you have to force them to be unusable, because switches don't sync online - even for doors. (Can be done in sapien)

Doors have to be naturally open - this can also be done in sapien.

Munitions like ammo drops (.equipment tags) must be in .item_collection form.

Ditto for .weapon tags. Reason for this is that .weapon and .equipment tags will just disappear about five seconds into the MP game, and nobody will have weapons or ammo. Thus the reasoning behind .item_collection tags.

You can change the spawn point in MP - actually you can have a boatload of spawn points if you desire (or, in a better case, if the map is large enough) - BUT, if you're going for a co-op feel and having more than one BSP in it (like b40), then it WILL NOT sync, due to extra players joining, and them not seeing anything, along with the fact that you can't use the "Restart Game" option in the pause menu, as that will crash the game.

---

Okay, last thing (I hope you got past all that text - because there's MORE :x)

There is a LOT of stuff from an SP to MP conversion you have to take out. Delete these IN THE ORDER THAT I GIVE YOU to avoid guerilla crashing on your sorry rear.

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Comments (these don't affect gameplay, so this is optional)

Object Names (same as Comments, but it helps if you don't have random names popping up for your vehicles or whatever)

Bipeds (mostly they do NOT sync, but they're usually dead, too, so those rarely sync at all)

Biped Palette (the bipeds that can show up in a map. These provide data to sapien so it can place the biped in the spot you select - this just takes up valuable data when compiling the map for MP use, as you only have 128 MegaBytes to work with)

Equipment (Health Packs, ammo drops, Active Camo and Overshields for SP use - these don't work in MP at all, so delete these)

Equipment Palette (same as Biped Palette)

Weapons (Assault Rifles, Plasma Pistols, etc. Same as Equipment)

Weapon Palette (Same as Biped and Equipment Palette)

Device Groups (Same as Comments and Object Names)

Player Starting Profiles (these are for SP use ONLY, so get rid of them. Also interesting to note, there are two profiles, due to the Xbox to PC porting of the game - and so it's still deemed as a Co-Op profile)

Player Starting Locations (used in both SP and MP, the ones in b40 are used only for SP/Co-Op, and obviously you're going to be placing your own, so get rid of them. Again, an interesting side-note, there are two, as stated above)

Trigger Volumes (again, used in both SP and MP, you usually need scripts to gain full use of these [especially if you're making your own killboxes, but that's a different topic], but mainly used in SP. Delete them)

Recorded Animations (Exclusive to SP. Delete)

Decals (don't sync. 'Nuf said)

Decal Palette (same reasons for previous Palettes)

Encounters (AI don't sync online, so get rid of them. This also takes care of several areas underneath so you don't have to go through them)

Actor Palette (if you haven't figured out why by now...lol)

AI Conversations (there isn't going to be AI in MP, so why have conversations between them? Delete)

Scripts (again, mainly used in SP, these go hand in hand with Encounters, Trigger Volumes, and many other things usually slated for SP usage, unless you're making your own scripts [usually killboxes, but again, another topic]. Delete)

Globals (no MP map has them as far as I've seen, so why should yours have them? Delete)

References (usually attached to BSP's and Trigger Volumes, these are almost exclusivly used in SP. Delete)

Cutscene Flags (unless your MP map is going to have area where gameplay stops for a cutscene, you don't need these)

Cutscene Camera Points (same as above)

Cutscene Titles (some MP maps have these, but the vast majority do NOT. So unless you intend to have some random white lettering that disappears after a while, delete them)

Structure BSP's (now these are tricky. Depending on what part of the level you want to use [like the ending of b40], you have to go into sapien FIRST to decide what BSP you want to use before deleting things from here. My suggestion: DO NOT TOUCH THIS AREA UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT BSP YOU WANT TO USE)

---

Hopefully you read through it all, and I'm terribly sorry for the excessive length of it, but it should easily help you in your endeavour in doing an SP/MP conversion map.

Great post man, thanks for the info.

Took me 10 minutes to gather all that data, if you can believe that >.>

amazing, thanks chief! really!

are you sure i' ve to remove AI aswell? if they dont sync online what about a lan version?
maybe useless nowadays but im asking just to understand what the limits are.
honestly, i didnt know about that, i saw a lot of multiplayer maps with a lot of AI!

lan is fine for maps with ai,it's only when you try to play a map with someone over the internet that the ai don't sync.

indeed tho good post up there.

2 questions:

- can i use more than one bsp in multiplayer? (like, the whole map :3) or i have to choose only one?

- once ive decided which bsp i want to use, how do i 'select' it?

btw it works, i just need to know how to change bsp or use more than one cause atm im using the first part of the map.

You can use more than one BSP in a MP map, but I wouldn't recommend it. Firstly, it's because it wouldn't properly sync online (although it would work fine on LAN), and secondly, it's because most of the things (like vehicles, scenery and the like) would have to be scripted in to appear when the BSP changes ingame (online, of course).

I did see a map that had more than one BSP that was quite popular when it first came out (although you had to be a part of Red Team, otherwise friendly AI would attack you), but it had issues with transferring people over to the second BSP. Anyone who joined the game after the second BSP had loaded were stuck in a grey void, and had to wait until either the game ended, or the host started a new game (note that I said start, not reset)

For your second question, are you talking about modding it in HEK, or while you're ingame?

in the HEK, i' ve compiled the map, it works, i placed a spawn point in the first canyon, if i place the spawn point in another bsp i begin in that grey void, it seems that the first canyon is the first bsp loaded by the map, i would like to change that.

By the way i found out an interesting stuff by myself:
if i don' t remove the trigger volumes i can change bsp in lan :3 (edit: i mean move from one to another one, like in single player)
i understand that it's not safe for online games, but i want to keep going, maybe it's gonna be just a lan version, or just a solo map, but i would like to do it in this way.

the last problem is: if i die in a bsp different from the one where i spawn (if i'm not in the first canyon) the game doesn't load the first bsp and im stuck in that grey void again...
fixing this is actually more important than change the first bsp (the first canyon is fine), i need just to fix this stuff... i'm pretty sure that if edit each bsp (and i give to each of them the area where the spawn point is) ill fix this problem, i need just to learn how edit BSPs...
i'm sorry if i'm annoying, i need just this last thing, please :3

ps: i'm sure about this cause each pair of BSPs have a little piece of the map in common, if the spawn point is there, it will works for both of them (and i can die in both of them)
Edited by GreenFace on Mar 20, 2011 at 06:29 AM

Which is exactly why having more than one BSP in a multiplayer map (online or LAN) is a no-no. Because of the technical limitations of this 10+ year old game and its engine, Halo cannot fully render multiple BSP's of a level, hence why it's only used in SP.

Halo does not like the fact that there is more than one spawn in two different BSP's, so it loads the player into which ever one it deems nessisary. So you need to keep the spawn points in one BSP to avoid spawning in the grey void, and you cannot change the fact that once you die, you can't go back to the loaded BSP unless you start a new game.

Sorry, but it is what it is, and not a lot of people CBA'd to modify Halo's 10+ year old game engine to help you.

Good job on modifying the map, though, and I hope you can continue to mod them!