i believe its a choice every1 is entitled to. But i believe this too.

Jahrain.
<3 Open source :)
Open sourcing is the best way to go in a development community. Your not only proving goodies for the unknown players that you may never know about, you creating something that your fellow developers can enjoy just as much. In order to maintain a friendly and productive modding community, its best to open source things that your fellow modders can enjoy and in return others will open source something that you have always wanted. It speeds up the development for others and allows them to focus on other tasks to create a better end result. Those are just the basis of evolution. Some times we think that open sourcing something can have a slight negative impact if a wild group of noobs gather and miss-uses or over uses something open sourced and just forget about the amount of positivity that can be created but with held by a fear of noobies, which I happen to call 'Noobaphobia', and it brings down a development community or keeps it from progressing in some way. Most of the top modding supported games out there are forced-open-source such as unreal and hl2. So theres no need to worry about persuading people to open source what they did and thats what links these games to being at the top of the modding food chain. I strongly encourage anyone who uses these tags to see my views in why you should support the open sourcing of tags and information in Halo CE. If you dont see any point in open sourcing becuase you think theres nothing to gain back in return or fear of not getting credit or something then put it this way. Who would you rather gain recognition from? A bunch of random fan boys who like to play your stuff of a bunch of fellow developers who appreciate what you have done for them. Also i should add, don't look at others work as competition with what your working on. Look at it as inspiration to make your work even better just how artists look at paintings from others to inspire them to create something even better.

Been diagnosted by your doctor with Noobaphobia? Theres a cure. Look at the situation and consider all the negative affects that you think just may accur and ask yourself. "would this ruin my life if it happened?","Would this completely ruin the lifes of others I care for?","Do i see any point to continue living if this ever occured?" If answered No to these questions then you should be cured of Noobaphobia ;)

why would it matter if some1 put ur tags in a crappy modd or altered the bitmap to have flowers?
any1 who matters would know the true makers of the tags, and the liers who would claim them as their own work might impress a couple of their dumb friends but he will never get the respect of a community that way.
Is it a full server running yoyomod or yoyo island everynight? if no1 plays the crappy modds then who does it hurt?

I have so no one has to track me down.

It is a good thing you did man, I don't think you comprehended how much destruction that would do to this community and to Halo CE.

I hate that people don't like Dark Zealot, all he was was a person that thought he could do something good for the community and make an unprotector, even though it was a really bad choice, people shouldn't flame him.

As most of the community know what will happen if he becomes another kidd, and it will be on whoever was harrassing him because they will be the ones he is gonna go after first.

I believe that people should be open source.

oi do i have to read that @_@

my eyes hurt lol

I could also be said that if there weren't people that modders felt would abuse their tags, they would never protect. To bad it's beyond anyones control.

At least some one believes in me, thanks H4Z4RD.
Edited by DarkZealot on Mar 3, 2008 at 09:35 PM

The control is in the people's hands that decide to use the tags and not give credit.

Open sourcing is good for Halo as long as people don't take credit for other people's work.

I Endorse this statement. :)

But seriously, If you where to randomly walk up to someone (in real life need i remind you.. for those of you who have a hard to deciphering reality from halo. XD) and say "I am Masterz1337 i am the leader of CMT, and i made Snow Grove" they would probebly either say

"Wt* you talking about.. freak"
or
"GTF* IDK YOU"

so.. really, will being the maker of a famous map make you "Famous" in real life? sheesh.. get over your pixels and move on!

Sel is right. It should be left to the creator of the tag to do what they want with it. It is their creation after all.

Look at it this way. Bungie decided to release the HEK for people to make content for Halo CE. They could have never released it if they wanted to, but it was their choice.

Who gives a damn. After all, people steal many things, even I have and I haven't gone to jail. It's too minor, I've plagiarized, and I haven't gone to jail. In fact, the people who rip the models and textures out of the game are calling it theirs, when 99% of it is BUNGIE'S. Perhaps that should clear things up?

HDoan didn't make the bipeds, they were Bungies! CMT's campaign? The textures were BUNGIE'S! You see? They tell people not to rip, and they still do it. Ironic.

come on, how can you not tell the differance between real life and the computer? in real life everyone treats you like worthless garbage, and on hte computer just the selected few treat you like garbage unless you've given them reasons other wise.

You don't know what you are talking about.

^ Hey people he steals he just wants to be cool

im afraid he does know what he is talking about loll..
Edited by ALD_KaiZei on Mar 3, 2008 at 09:56 PM

Okay. So HDoan made the textures and Bungie stole them! Wow!

No. I do know. I hate people who take stuff from other games and puts them into others. Remember a mod called Halogen for C&C? Microsoft shut it down -- it put Halo into C&C. And CMT? They put Halo 2 into Halo. One game difference? No. Halo and Halo 2 have major differences besides graphics. Dual wielding? Bungie's. Halo 2 weapons? Bungie's. Halo 2 vehicles? Bungie's.

You get it? NO ONE made all this Halo 2 stuff, they just ripped it and claimed as their own.

I have no clue why you bring me up and my CMT status now, but do know I didn't ask to be a celebrity of this community and I don't want it. I don't want to attention or the fans, and I don't go around bragging about it, although I do use my "status" in situations where it helps.

You bring up the fact what good will map making and modding do you in real life, look where nitro, kornman, steelix, tweek, Mrs. D or Snaf are.

Why is everyone doing this?

You do know that you are turning Dark Zealot into another Sali or Kidd

Just stop adding to the fire guys, he knows he did wrong, and he is trying to protect himself.

I would do the same thing if I was being harrassed like he is now, and you all know you don't want another Sali, do you?

Then maybe this topic should cease. Too bad I can't lock it.

H4Z4RD, you are the most mature one here. Thank you.
Edited by DarkZealot on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:01 PM

its a bloody choice pple, why would we all agree? wouldnt that be weird?

i think red shirts are best and of course black pants/trousers, every1 with me on that?
if u would like to argue about my other opinions feel free via pm.

Halogen was shut down though, because of it. And if Microsoft saw this, I wonder what would happen.

Everyone thinks something different

I believe in open sourcing and I make awsome things, I want people to use my things as long as they don't screw me over and don't give me credit.

Microsoft checks this page every week, Dennis said so himself
Edited by H4Z4RD on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:08 PM

Its called IP intellectual property

...On the Halo CE/GBX Forums?

[/sarcasim] if you didnt get that *COUGH* Masterz *COUGH*
Edited by ALD_KaiZei on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:08 PM

Fine, Just Let me revise the WHOLE POST:



At Their Computers?
Edited by ALD_KaiZei on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Edited by ALD_KaiZei on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:16 PM

...Look Closer... O_o
Edited by ALD_KaiZei on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:11 PM

Halogen was shut down cause it was deemed a threat to Halowars. This was possible because it was MS/Bungies IP, and they have the legal power to give a C&D to anyone who uses their IP.

I am not looking forward to it at all, to me it will ruin Halo and its rep forever.

And from what I saw about that Halogen thing, that would better then HaloWars

Hmm... I think there is some stuff here that justifies people using other people's content. That's the idea of evolution. Basically, a user uses another user's work so he doesn't have to spend a week Re learning it. There's of course some stuff that this should be applied to...

a User will use another user's content on his map so he doesn't have to make it himself. Right? Fair enought in my mind as long as the guy ALSO developps new stuff such as Scenery, Vehicles Weapons and others. That way is how the mapping community will progress. Keep in mind ''CMT'' that not everyone has a Huge team of highly skilled beeings and that not eveyrone wishes to make slayer maps. I for one will protect my maps but will release tags separatly( Because there is absolutly NOTHING GOOD in repopulating people's maps aka the noobs that edited RPG_Beta4).

Kiwi hears ya'll talk about how people can improve things when they're opened sources. People can learn from them and such. You know what we see instead? Legions of mods that fail epicly, Kiwi has not really seen many mods that actually improved a map.

Yes but most people start from making mods and that is what attracts people into the community because of just these simple mods they can make.

That is exactly my point.

Open sourcing is better because we can learn and grow from other people's past experiences.

That is why most games now are open sourced, because it attracts more people into the game and makes the experience more fun. That is why games were created in the first place, to have fun and entertain us.
Edited by H4Z4RD on Mar 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Hey all, and I am simply posting in here to show my viewpoint on the matter. My viewpoint on the matter is that I agree with both sides to a degree, and I agree with most people's responses here more-so than others depending on what they say. My viewpoint is this: That some, but not all tags made by others, should be open-sourced at the creator's discretion. The word "some" means that any old tags that the creator is not using anymore and that he/she is going to scrap anyways. Perhaps released in an untextured version would force people to learn how to texture and then put it in a map. It is highly unlikely that anyone new here would obviously put it in a Custom BSP, and it would most likely go into a Mod or some sorts and that they might not texture it, but that is the person, who downloads the tag/s, choice. Now notice how I said "at the creator's discretion." I say that because, knowing map makers and being in some mapping clans, most people become attached to their work; I know I do even if it isn't for Halo Custom Edition. If CMT, Zteam, or anyone else chooses not to open-source their tags, then that is their choice and I am proud, perhaps you should be too, that they even released the map/s with that content in it. If the won't give you their models then at least they give you the option to play the map, look at the models in-game, and see the quality that happens through hard work. Through pictures taken in-game, much can be learned if one watches closely.



This statement by SiMuLaCrUm, is so true on so many levels. Life is not fair and people will make their own choices. Granted some of those choices may be bad, to some, but the HCE Community will have to live with the creator's choices about open-sourcing. There is nothing anyone can do to change his/her decision unless they change it themselves. What is, is. What happens, happens. There is nothing the community can do to change that.



Dark Zealot, when I read this from you I about died of laughter about what you have to learn about plagiarism. When you are in College, and when you get caught plagiarizing, you can, and most likely will, get kicked out of the college on probation and it will be put on your record that you plagiarized. I am in College English, therefore I should know and you will also fail the paper which sucks. I hope you change your ways on plagiarism before college my friend.

And lastly, a quote from H4Z4RD.



Open-sourcing may be better, but only on certain levels. How can one learn from an already completed model? If a video of the model being made was released, much more would be learned than just looking at an already completed model. But I do kind of understand what you meant there.

Anyways, to end this long "rant" on this topic, I will end by saying: If you open-source, then good for you. I am happy that other people can use your creations yet sorry if they are mistreated and you do not get any credit. If you do not open-source, then good for you. I admire that you are making the choice to not let the model be mistreated yet sorry that people will only be able to look at the models in-game. Perhaps to all of you, whether you open-source or not, should make videos of the model/s being made or something, so the "next generation" of mappers can see how to make wonderful looking scenery, weapons, vehicles, BSP's, and etc...

Just my input and viewpoints here. Thanks for taking your time to reading this.

--musicman888

That was one of the best well thought out posts on this forum ever. +rep.

Actually now that you said that, I did help someone by showing them how to model, and Maniac has made video's helping me to model better. What I am getting at is that you are completly right, if every good modeler makes a video showing how to make a base or something, it will show the future person how to model the same way and thus, showing them what to do more then just giving them the tags to look at.

Amazing post by musicman888, 1000 internets for you sir.
Edited by H4Z4RD on Mar 3, 2008 at 11:28 PM

There are plenty of good tags that people can learn from. They shouldn't need everything that was ever released to learn.

Musicman, that was a well done post.

The thing is, the people who are for open sourcing act as if a few people holding back their content is annihilating the community. There is plenty of good content that the creators have no problem with them using. Why should they use the content that the few don't want used?

On a note contributing to musicman's point:

We could try making 'template items' like template tags. So that people dont have to start from scratch and/or just need a little help to start. You all might think this is pointless but i assure you (yes really) that it makes a huge difference!

For example: If you have a task that will take a LONG time to create; you may feel a little depressed by the magnitude and possibly wish not to even start it. You might say 'deal with it' but thats not a nice solution. If someone gives a helping hand / push or a headstart. it makes all the difference and infact encourages one to start; in the end you will feel that its not that bad and that it was worth it.

AND If you are really nice. You could use the template items with a tutorial to help guide them a little more. It's like smoothing the learning process. Again it seems like nothing or pointless. I promise you it is not.

Give it a try; no sense just talking about it.

Don't Forget guys that we learned alot from Bungie's tags. Besides,It's how Science is nowadays. You build Off what the people before you did and improve it.now o foucrse ''Mods'' don't get into that, they'Re simply repopulation but on the other hand, looking at someone's vehicle tag to learn how he added his cool effect, Use your own knowledge to fix a small inconsistency and then use the new tag or simply learn how he did that, make your own using what you like and leaving behind what you don't, thus improving the Technique, is how the community moves forward. As I stated before, when CMT finds something new that hasn't been done before and works with all it's team to port it in game, the Community moves Forward only for the time this map is out. If we're talking about let's say, Real Time Reflections on water. Open sourcing it lets some other people actually figure out how they work but also improve them. Now of course, RTR on water is rather easy but that's only one example.