Like who? The only map I ever released I protected. If you mean the people on h2vista.net, most of them don't post here. You would have to post a thread about this on h2vista.net

So im invisible now, am I?

I agree with Dennis. I've ALWAYS left my tags unprotected, although I have also done my best to give credit where it's due. I believe in open-source because it's the only way anyone's going to really make anything good. Did I just rip the tags? Not really. I replaced all the sounds with unique ones to help add to them so they could recirculate back into the community. I even released a sound pack once.

From the stand-point of the Microsoft License Agreement, does any of this stuff belong to anyone anyway? Seriously, come on guys. Besides, protecting a map makes it larger, albeit very minutely. I'm 29. I grew out of that "IT'S ALL MINE" attitude. God forbid I die anytime soon, but let's just hypothetically say I do then will it be mine anymore? Nope! But at least I'd go knowing that I gave something to the community that helped people besides just a map.

To me it's just childish, seeing people squabble over stuff that really isn't theirs anyway, technically, unless I'm wrong about the license agreement. I'm beyond all that now. I create because I enjoy it. Credit is nice but not manditory because I know people out there are like that and won't credit you anyway so why get ticked off about something so trivial anyway as ego, pride, and fluffy "It's all mine" attitude?

On the other hand I can agree with some of the people here that are still in that way of thinking. You put forth an effort and someone slaps you in the face. Why want to keep creating? On the other hand, why do anything you don't enjoy unless you HAVE to like a job? When you all grow up you'll learn there are certain things you don't like doing but just have to do anyway, like earn money to live.

Bottom line for me is I don't like protecting maps because then it can destroy the community in my opinion. On the other side of the equation, it helps encourage people to make their own stuff if it's protected.

To end this seemingly stupid argument, if anyone wants to really protect their maps as far as knowing how, use HEK+. It's so simple! If you can't figure out the Map Protector feature then don't bother protecting your maps because I refuse to explain what's so simple.

I hope this posting doesn't get me into trouble with some people but that's just how I feel. Sorry if I offended anyone but I hit hard sometimes on things I feel passionate about and open-source is one of them and also my love for creativity and helping the less fortunate.

If I were a less civilized person I would implore you to pull the trigger now please. But I won't.
What you seem to think of as a "fight" is a rational discussion about a complex subject packed with an emotional content of self worth and identity. Your response added nothing to the discussion except to show your ignorance for the importance to say nothing of the content of the subject.

and then id just have to release a tut on protecting your maps better. (I won't release it unless protection is threatened, because it itself threatens the current map protection, and currently since barley anyone knows how to go around map protection, it would do more bad then good.)

Protecting maps is our own choice, and people making the excuses that the map protection is stopping ideas is stupid; How often do you see newbs asking how certain tags in maps work? they don't, and yet you keep making excuses it stops them from learning; all they have to do is ask and we would explain it, us spoon feeding them wont teach them how to do stuff, but helping them will make them learn.
People who like sharing their tags help people have variety of things to be spoon feed, and that is their choice, but you can't force your will upon another since you arn't the ones who own posestion of the tags; Bungie does, and since when did bungie ever say to spoon feed people so they don't understand anything? HEK is a learning experiance, and when making your own custom stuff, you can express yourself. Yes, many people want exact duplicates of something, and if they do, they could always ask, because its not like they are gonna die in a few days because they don't have something. Yes, I agree alot of basic tags should be released in HQ, like good copies of all the halo weapons, and vehicles; but its still the people who spend their time making them's choice.

So, summerizing it all; Until bungie, the copywright holder, says we have to share, its the people who make the map's choice.

He said IF, then, blah. and he already said it wasn't a fight (even though in all of our eyes it is), but we just have to agree with dennis weather you realy agree or not, because he is the overlord of the forums, and he can crush you like a fly.

His normal thinking reminds me of the out of the way thinking I usually do when I'm joking wiht my friends... Except the first part. I think that was pretty clear.

I think you are an ass licker.
Just because someone has the hammer of power, this case being Dennis, should not mean everyone has to agree with him. He even stated himself in a similar topic that there is nothing wrong with stating an opinion, whether it is against his or not.

But screwing with that opinion and changing it in every post or whatever, is not so good, I think... (and I think I did that too)

These topics are somewhat stupid because NOBODY is going to change a map/mod developer's opinion on it. One thing that they ARE good for is getting a good look at both sides of each issue, and maybe that can help someone new to mapmaking make their decision on whether they want or do not want to protect "their" tags.

Because there is no way to force someone into open sourcing or hiding everything away, I will say this:
Since releasing tags to the general public can be beneficial (usually ;-) ), I would actually recommend to new mapmakers NOT to protect them, but if they feel they should, go ahead. This in no way means that I will not use protection for certain purposes...
Like I a private playtest? Is it so wrong and immoral if I give a protected version to a select few because I want to playtest before an official public release that will get ZOMG hits (by ZOMG hits I mean more than just a few friends or whatever. I do not mean some 1000 downloads and 5 dedicated servers running the map and...)

Wow. So painful to the community.

So damaging.

So immature.

So selfish.

So pathetic.

At least some of the time Dennis makes the other side sound moral. Pretty much everyone else against protection whom I have seen have made the side very unconvincing (PERFECT EXAMPLE: Invalid).

But after thinking about it, I might as well say I will not to release a single protected map on a site like this >_>. Why the give-in? Why not?

And then any protected maps by me can be identified by everyone who wants to mod it as a leak >_>... not that it will be so humiliating or whatever... >_>






And I am no CMT or equivalent.

Ugh. Great. And as I prepare to hit the "post" button, I cannot help but think someone is going to say something along the lines of "Enzo you are just sucking up", but guess what?


ugh...
...I thought about it and the issue has been stuck in my head for awhile. And also, it was ME who made the choice.

Also, I never wanted to post here anyway, but I want to get this out of my head into words now. Whether I will regret it or not does not matter now. I am regretting it already.

There is; Bungie. But until that day when Bungie declairs something, its our own freewill, and if you have a problem with it, oh well. All humans disagree with certain things, because life isn't perfect; You just have to deal with what you have, and use your own freewill within the limits of society. (Since there is currently no rules from the copywright holder, Bungie, its still up to our freewill, and the people who want to protect their stuff can)

look guys protecting maps is ok once and while, if you reaally dont want any one to take the tags then go protect the map, if not and you really would like to see someone use your tags that would be great becuase then you now that someone actually likes your tags. Me ive only protected one map in the past, That was a mod and the reason it was protected was becuase how long it took me to modified the tags and make them better then they were before. But after seeing this fight in this thread i wont be protecting maps aymore. As in Maniacs post, His quote of Jharian, I personally think that not protecting maps is good and the cumminity would be more free. So what if noobs use the map, i used to be a noob and i didnt really care. Grow up guys.

does anyone here realize that when haloCE camed out, and there was no HEK+....nobody could rip anything? means that bungie never intended the maps to be ripped with a program someone made....this someone called steelix knew this and added the protection for those who didnt want to get ripped with the app he made....that wasnt bungies(or gbx, whatever) idea for the whole Halo: Custom Edition concept

Another one for keeping them protected is because people don't just plain like other people using their tags in any other map then their own

Lol, it is stupid to protect. Who was the person who said that people dont explore tags? well your wrong, I ripped a map with a grav lift in it to see how it worked.

Oh yeah, and another reason I use protection on private betas: it would not be fair if some few people I selected got to be the lucky ones to use my tags before the rest of the community.

Just thought of that one off of the top of my head.

Id like to ask you all a question. In school, when you give a kid the complete answers to the work, what does he learn? All he does is copy them down, he doesnt realy even bother to look at them, so what in the world could that kid posible be learning from that?

good point Kirby. But i dont believe that the purpose is to learn. The whole point is to be sharing with others, which no1 can ever make u do (except ur mum) dont be scared that pple might use them in a bad map as it wont matter coz it wont get dloaded or played and if its a good map that will be played then u should be pleased that ur tags were used. But its entirely the mapmakers choice and that should be respected.

Dennis makes a good point. Along with all the other people who have said pretty much the same thing as Dennis but in different words.

ok, even if someone isnt looking how the tags work, even the noobiest members can make good maps (thus attracting more people to the sceme of halo CE) For exapmle, If someone made a mod of timberland (h3ish) with CMT's and H3T's weapons, and mancannons on either sides. Simple, but awesome.

true also Napalm, and thats just 1 opinion. whether it would be epic or fail would be decided by the # of pple playing / dloading it. Im glad u havnt caught the Noobaphobia thats going round. In any case these are all personal opinions and mine is mine and urs is urs. There is no point in trying to enforce ur opinions on some1 else (not directed at any1 in particular)

Thing is, this situation is different that that one. So you can't compare them.

as in the stuff u do in school actually goes on a record and u are credited for said things? im sure that if u make enough good stuff in 3ds then u will be noticed and credited (maybe by a big company) so its not really that different . just so im clear on this i am against protection but i will never begrudge some1 for doing it ( its their right)

I see only one reason for ever protecting maps: When it is partially illegal like in zteam maps(read their threads on other websites[h2v.net i think] to see what I mean).

typing something like " if u dont own h2 then dont dload this map" in a readme changes nothing.its always illegal to rip from non open games. and 1 unsigned sentence wont change that. its not illegal for me to download a map thats hosted on this site.

Don't confuse a commercial game with a fan creation. The commercial game company [Bungie] has all the legal rights to the game they made. They set the rules on its use. The person who makes a fan creation like a custom map has NO legal rights to the content of the fan creation because it is built on the IP of the game maker [Bungie]. The policies of this website and my views on "protection" stem from this basic undeniable fact.

The issue is not a black and white concept which is why it is hard for some to understand. The basic fact is that you can’t legally own the rights to anything you make for the Halo game. By that I mean you have no legal recourse to determine how, when or where it is to be used and it can’t be sold. Only Bungie has the right to make that assessment.

That does not mean you should stop making fan creations and that you shouldn’t be proud of the things you make or be given credit or receive accolades for the them but just remember they don’t legally belong to you. Bungie just lets you play with them. Bungie just gave you the building blocks to play with.

Protecting maps is the same as the child who makes a castle out of the playground blocks then knocks it all down so other kids can’t play with it forcing them to make their own. Now everyone is re-building the castle when they really were just trying to play swords.

Actually zteam is hardly a fan creation, they just rip from halo 2.

Fan Creation = anything made from or about a commercial game and not by the game creator.

yes i'm a 4 year old (mentally that is) adn i dotn wanna let other kids play with my castle wich i made out of the playground blocks adn i do kick it down so other people cant use it

but i dotn care about that XD
Edited by gamegodlazy on Jan 29, 2008 at 10:25 AM

Get the **** away from my sand box

No i wanna play with ur sandbox because it is better modeled and better textured XD

Please lower your voice it is impolite to shout.

As to the necessity of the topic it is a discussion about an aspect of human nature that has ramifications beyond this particular issue of sharing tags. All points of view are welcome when presented in a logical and reasonable manner. If you do not wish to participate then please remain silent. Thanks you.

I"M NOT SHARING!!!!!
I PROTECT MY MAPS
I SHOUT
I"M IMPOLITE
KEEPING THIS TOPIC ALIVE.....
damn out of things i wanted to shout
maybe i'll say stuff i want to wisper XD
Edited by gamegodlazy on Jan 29, 2008 at 11:50 AM

oh, so suddenly you want the topic to stay open?.. its a normal human action to disagree with things and want their own idea. if everyone wanted the same thing, it would cause more wars, because they would wnat the same living space, the same name, blah blah blah.

it's jsut tags adn i was jsut follingaround like i think mapping teams shoudl release their older versions of weapons ect once they got an better 1

and in that way both sides will be pleased

the thing is though, no matter what you really do, your not going to stop people from protecting maps
the truth here, is that people don't want to "re-create the wheel". im perfectly ok with giving people tags like the .weapons so they can see how it works, but i wont give out models and bitmaps. giving people the tags is one thing, so they can learn how to code the stuff. giving them the model data.... thats just saying "here you don't have to learn, i did it for you". there are plenty of tutorials for people to choose from here and other places on the internet that teaches people how to photoshop, model, and all that kind of stuff.

i agree with donut but i'm the kind of person if i made soething and then make an better 1 of the thingi made i would upload the older 1 for the community because then i dont need ti anymore and then people who cant make stuff can use it

this creates an line like i got the better stuff for myself but i still shared and will give that new 1 to the public when i have made an better 1