According to the countless posts and useless topics, AI will NOT sync over 'net, so what if we do it with players?

We will have a script set up.

According to the options provided by scripts, you can choose to have a total of 4 people be the main characters, or go solo. (as well do it in a squad of 2 or 3)

The other 12-15 players will be the campaign targets.

As the campaigner progresses, dead campaign targets will re-spawn at locations that are deeper into the level, so the campaigner will have enemies to shoot.

Example: campaigner has killed 4 targets, those 4 will re-spawn in the area that is after the campaigner's current location, so when he enters that area, he will still have people to shoot and progress further into it until he beats the level.

To make sure all the players get killed or kill the campaigner, the next area of the campaign will be blocked off until the campaigner has killed all the targets in the current area, and if he dies a script has that area start over until he beats it and progresses.

A script will be used as "adaptive difficulty", as the campaigner kills more targets with ease, the script will make the targets health, shield, firepower and damage resistance go up by a small % for every target killed after the 7th or 8th target killed in a row.

A possible method?

great idea! but you'd have to make sure that there were 16 players all up...or at least like 5 or 6...it is possibly possible though...not sure how you'd do it all though...

actually i think that may be able to work, but not 100% sure. maybe a script or something could be used to teleport the other players into a biped so the campaigner could shoot grunts and things. or maybe make a room where all the people on blue spawn that has a teleporter that leads into a certin area for a specific period of time then can change as the red player goes though the "campaign" but the people on blue have to jump into a biped of grunts or whatever then go though the tele to fight the red player. could something like that maybe work?

what if we have a script so that when the map is loaded, a screen is displayed, choosing the amount of players in the campaign.

Example: if you choose 8 players, a total of 2 players can campaign together and kill the other six, if 12 is selected, 3 can squad up, if 16, 4 can squad up, and the other 12 players are the enemies.

Once you have selected the player count, and you have the necessary players, you can click a "start game" button which will initiate spawning and etc.

Once game has started, a script will have all defendants of the campaign (the supossedly player-controlled AI) spawn in either grunts, Elites, or Jackals randomly, and maybe later into the level have 2 players spawn as a hunter couple for a boss battle.

While the campaigners will be like this:

Player 1: MC
Player 2: Capt. Keyes
Player 3: Sgt. Johnson
Player 4: A randomly selected marine biped (with exception of Sgt. Johnson)
Edited by MechWarrior001 on Nov 26, 2007 at 02:00 AM

a script can see a player has died, and wait for player to respawn.
when player respawns, script tests with a trigger volume which team player is on, and fancy stuff ensues.

What about AI de-randomized? Fixed facing, no look-angles, clockwork actions, might that synchish?
Edited by bobbysoon on Nov 26, 2007 at 06:30 AM

Mechwarrior, Im getting excited just reading this, I dont know why this wouldnt work, however, how would you plan the random biped switching?

this sounds good and mabey a new way to play campagin in multiplayer BUT what if cortana speeks?

EDIT: wtf are you talking about AI not snycing over the interent? They sync perfect for me....
Edited by Higuy on Nov 26, 2007 at 04:19 PM

No they dont.

One great example of AI syncing over the net: Targetpractice. One horrible example of AI syncing over the net: Mummy 1-5.

Its not the lag, its the over the net syncing as in: Computer A could see 800 ai little poppit Flood coming after him while Computer B in the same place sees only one. Thats what happens, you cans see what is going on with the ai on one computer.

What happens someimes too is when Computer a's bot Does a cartwheel to get out of the way of the gun thrown at it, and Computer B's exact same AI bot shoots at User B, causing a tear, and therefore causes an unsolvable error for the server.

Those are the main reasons why I personally want Bungie to make a new patch for Halo.

I searched for "bump-posession", and found it won't work too well.
Permutations. making a biped with two rigged sets of animations, if that could be done, might work.
a player spawn script could set the players permutations by volume test at respawn time
Edited by bobbysoon on Nov 27, 2007 at 12:13 AM

Bump possession is a good idea, but it wouldn't work because everyone would be stealing the other's body. I would think that some major scripting skill would need to be in place in order to do such a thing.

The first post said it in the first sentence: AI will not sync over the network. There is no qualification, if, ands or but’s about it. AI will not sync. Period. There is no netcode or underlying software routines to handle the complexity of syncing AI over the network. You cannot fool the existing communication protocol to transfer the required data. The best that can be done is to transmit on-off status (kill/alive) of a hidden biped to signal a device machine to marginally sync as long as it only has two states: Even that exhibits enormous overhead on the client and server and causes lag and exceptions.

This subject has been beaten to death and the answer remains the same: Unless you are going to completely re-write the core of the game and develop a new network protocol then AI will not sync over the network.

One problem about the idea of some people being the main characters and the enemies.
Wouldn't they have to be on teams? And teams automatically balance when a person joins. No problem if you put on 'let people go to the bigger team' but then, wouldn't everyone just go to the team with the main characters instead of being the enemies that get killed?

No because a script would be in effect, once the selected number of people (up to a maximum of 4) joins the campaigners, it would lock teams and prevent team switching.

Is that possible?

I'm not sure, Kirby a little help please.

i would try PMing Kirby, he would know i think.

contact me on Xfire, kirby422

Multiplayer campaigns sound cool, but something like this also has the potential for asymetrical map play where one side defends a target while the other must destroy it and so forth. Lots of work but if done right could be lots of fun.
Edited by SGWraith on Nov 27, 2007 at 11:23 AM

So.. since im at school and bord, I guess ill get talking about setup stuff to see your reactions...

You would spawn in a lobby, reds in one side, blues in the other, with a wall dividing them. You have a window just for entertainment just to taunt each other :P

Anways, in that lobby, there is many differnt locked doors, and then a little standing pad.. when all players in the server are standing on one of those 2 pads, it script labels what team each person is on for any future referance, and opens a pathway for blues to tele around the level (and mb a shaft beside the level where they can just warp in from there so they can acualy see where they are needed) the tele's won't function when there is a red right around that point so you don't just pile out and melee em in the back of the head. Blue will also get a armory to pick the weapons they want to use, but explosives will be locked untill farther along in the level. Red will find checkpoints along in the level, witch they can warp to from their lobby, from behind some of their locked doors. Every once and awhile, it will gather the reds in a room for cinematics like normal SP maps.

I think it might be usefull to give blues the ability to automaticly warp back to their base with the flashlight button, but might be a bit cheap..

So, in other words, blues get piles of equipment, and they get stronger and stronger stuff threwout the level. Reds fight their way threw, and get checkpoint warps to continue to where their group last died. I might script in a point system for what resorces you use, like how many times your red checkpoints where used.

So, the blue will get a billion advantages over the red lol. I also might put in a random AI player fusion fight at the end for laughs (probly a cinematic at the end after the reds win or something)

That sounds good but is it possible to have blue switch bipeds when they die?

multiple premuations, the reds set to "Not choosen randomly" and the red spawn point changes them to that model, the blues are random premuations. But, im to lazy to make all the characters into one model, so unless someone else does that, they will be MCs.

^ so as unless someone other than you does the codes everyone will be Mastercheifs?

no, the coding is easy, its just I would have to re-rig all the models to once sceleton, and also bluestreak hates me anyways, so I would have to inject weights into the JMS witch takes a long time and has never worked acuratly for me.

So, it's possible, then, rigging permutations? Could permutations have their own sets of animations?
looking at Jahrain's Halo CE model rigging kit's readme, it says sometimes you have to re-rig for levels of detail, which are permutations, right? Sounds very poossible to me, making an elite/cyborg or whatever. Will LOD be sacrificed, though...

Also, an idea, a device machine map, of the map, which lights up areas with activity. Scripting with trigger volumes, knowing each player's team from the spawn permutation script, red/blue/purple lights on the map depending on who's in that area. For use in transporter hub area.
Or just scripted object_teleport to where the action is

As much as you want to believe this I can assure you it is not true. Gearbox had very restrictive limitations on what they could or could not do in regards to "porting" the game. Syncing AI was not one of the requirements.

Even the Bungie base code for the Xbox did not have the core code to sync AI over a network connection. The split screen co-op mode for the Xbox does not work over a network connection and is only available within the same box . Microsoft/Bungie specified that they wanted a server deterministic network protocol AND that it function over a 56K modem AND that the entire package fit on a single CD. Not a DVD. With those restrictions adding the data stream to sync AI would have required much more bandwidth than 56K and created larger clients and servers. The Halo PC dedicated server is not even included on the CD but is a separate download.

You can argue all you want about the performance of the game but you can’t compare it to the games of today. You can maybe question some of the decisions made but 8 years ago when it was in development the restrictions imposed on Gearbox for the design were not outlandish. Eight years ago the DSL/Cable penetration was less than 2% and the DVD market less than 10%. At that time they made sense.

Gearbox was so passionate about making the game configurable and truly for the PC market that on their own time and without compensation they produced Halo Custom Edition and convinced Microsoft/Bungie to let them release it. Not many companies would have done that. So have all the facts before you trash the design of the game program.
Edited by Dennis on Nov 27, 2007 at 06:40 PM

^ Can we say "Owned" ??

I think that just scripting the teleporters to know what parts of the map and how well the Red team is doing so that if a player on either side quits, a new one can join without being stuck in the back where everyone already was.

wow dennis, i learned something there. im being serious too.

already answered a while ago

I know, thats why I said that.

Any thoughts on the storyline of said hypothetical map?

Well I was kind of thinking a Halo version of Iron Gate from Sonic Adventure 2 using this method.

Youtube is your friend.

Please lets not imitate that mission.

how about something similar to the timesplitters 3 missions? though some of those are too short but the mars prison and the vr mission would be cool