This is a great read about the concept of "retro" aesthetics, and the public perception of it.
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BlakeReynolds/20150512/243212/Pixel_Artist_Renounces_Pixel_Art.php
I also concur with the above that "Graphics" should be used to fulfill the purpose of the gameplay.

AMA = Ask Me Anything, duck man.

Did Viva Pinata help or harm your sanity? I once thought to play it, but was concerned it would cause me great hemorrhaging.

In regards to Windwaker, I thought it looked hokey upon release and many people I knew dogged it as seeming dumb. Of course, then they played it and their entire view was changed. Mostly the hate came from their comparing it to Ocarina of Time. I think comparing two different games, even if they are in the same series, is a tremendous shame.

Well I for one really liked the idea of 'Evolved'.
I'm not much of a MP player so I go through these SP maps many times over.
There's a point an idea gets boring even with mods and changes. 'Evolved' really gave that breath of fresh air for me.
But I'm not a mass of people and I haven't played through SPV3, so maybe I'll stay mum.

It is incredibly arrogant to even imply SPv3 is more appealing than TSC:E, to any audience.
TSC:E was made by a group of semi-professionals, and it shows. The amount of thought and love put into it is visible everywhere. There were a few areas it could have improved on, but that applies to any project.

SPv3 on the other hand, is just a mod made by, or rather lead by, an amateur who likes to think he is a semi-professional. I think you extremely over-estimate yourself and the quality of your project. I remember seeing it as CE3 last year, and then this year you were like "Last year we blew everyone away", while I was just like "Meh, same old SPvX, nothing too exciting here".

Just as you were incorrect in saying the masses did not like Zelda The Windwaker's style/graphics on release (what???), you are incorrect here. I severely doubt the masses would prefer your project over TSC:E. I say this as objectively as possible, given of course my disdain for your extreme arrogance.

I agree. I would say that TSC:E is, overall, the very best a team in this community has created. I'm arrogant myself (to a degree), and very proud of my own creations, but I can objectively say that.

And I'm the Queen of Sheba.

I don't know why anyone is arguing over what Masters is saying. I think everyone knows that SPV3 is McDonalds fast food compared to TSC: Evovled.

Spv3 dont even recreate the bsp

Masterz said "expanded levels" so that means, they are recreating bsps.Also why they wouldn't?
they recreated some for spv2.

There is new BSP in SPv3 - it expands upon the vanilla levels instead of replacing them outright.

I think its unfair to compare the two when SPV3 hasn't even had a single map released yet.

As we've all been saying, it's apples compared to oranges. One is designed to be a tightly structured stand alone map, the other a long loose structured campaign mod.

My opinion stated earlier wasn't that one was better than the other, but that one has a nostalgic appeal that makes it more attractive to the average joe on the street. In that sense, SPV3 is McDonalds.

I was recently appointed Earl of Kattegat.

So basically crap?

Isn't that worse? People paying more attention to your version not because it is good or impressive but mostly nostalgia?

Only the kids really want it. Everyone just defaults to it.

Okay, I've had a few drinks tonight. I'm feeling sassy. Here goes.

Sure, SPv3 may not be The Best Mod Ever. But it sure feels pretty crappy that people who have long since given up contributing anything to Halo CE are continually lining up to give nothing but constant derision and negativity towards what has whittled down to a very small team of enthusiasts who are doing what we do for no other reason other than we enjoy it and we want to hone our craft.

If you don't like it, that's fine.

If you want nothing to do with Halo editing, that's also fine.

Great. That's awesome. You have an opinion. Gold flipping stars for you and your whole class. But don't go douching on those who are spending what little free time they have actually making content. SOI, Masterz, Lex, myself and a bunch of others are giving up our free time so that you can have something hopefully cool. If it's not something you're interested in, please feel free to move on and do something constructive with yourselves instead of tearing the work of others down for internet karma.
Edited by beaucephal on Sep 4, 2015 at 09:49 PM

Sometimes crap tastes good, especially if it's McDonald's.
Disclaimer: I've never actually consumed feces

This is HaloMaps. Our primary purpose is to give nothing but constant derision and negativity towards people who actually make stuff, and doubly so for those who rip stuff.

Disclaimer: I'm mostly kidding
Edited by Skidrow925 on Sep 4, 2015 at 10:16 PM

Comparing SPV3 to McDonalds is not good advertising. I would recommend talking about SPv3 in a positive sense.

I completely understand your sentiment.
But what you need to understand is that, if your leader was not such an incredibly self-centered arrogant guy, and would act alot more humble, people would not feel inclined to illustrate just how wrong he so often is. Simply because there would be nothing to correct.

There was absolutely no reason for him to state his McDonalds product is more appealing than TSC:E. I can only assume he felt the need to say that out of some form of insecurity about the quality of his own project. Surely you too must feel annoyed at him for claiming such nonsense. I really do not understand how you can stand behind such a guy.

To illustrate even more how dumb and incorrect his statement is, in Belgium at least, the "average Joe" does in fact not find McDonalds more appealing. I haven't eaten McDonalds in years, and was always left with a crappy, bloated feeling afterwards. Not to mention it's not good for you.

And it really does not matter if some of us are no longer fully active in Halo CE. We have as much right to be here as you. Myself I like to stick around and follow a handful of projects out of interest.

Masterz is not a bad guy. Esp on halompas he throws out really broad negative sounding statements. He;s not an asshole though.

Hey, don't get me wrong - You've been around the modding block a lot longer than I have, so you know well that there are a lot of behind-the-scenes arguments that happen within any dev team. There are vehement disagreements about the direction of the mod all the time that happen in relative privacy.

But Masterz isn't SPv3 and SPv3 isn't Masterz. Sure, it's his baby, and he's in charge of its direction, but it's something that scores of talented people have contributed towards, and I guess I just get a bit cranky when I see all that dismissed.

I, for one, completely disagree with the McDonald's analogy. So nyerrrrrrrrr :P

PM

dalode really does just exist to start trouble huh

tl;dr: SPv3 is actually McDonalds and Masterz likes crappy food

The fact that Masterz is in charge of SPv3's direction is pretty bad. News flash: Don't let your PR guy also be the sole person in charge of the direction of the project

instead, since your team is small, give each person a task and have meetings to discuss what each person wants from the project. Don't let some single person dictate what is going to happen and what isn't because it's going to get very opinionated and their ego is going to get self inflated to very large levels (you can see this has already happened to Masterz quite a long time ago)

TSC:E was great because of the people in it, which resulted in a fantastic project (one of the best, if not best, this community has seen in its SP department). Having good, dedicated and loyal team members who each have a say and contribute equally is going to make the best mod. A person who can barely use the HEK and just tells other people he finds to do tasks for him isn't going to make something as great. At this point SPv3 has been riding off the success from SPv1 in CE's early days and the hype that was SPv2, and also the release of TSC:E.

I'm not trying to diminish the mod itself, who knows it could turn out alright, but the nonsense and words spewing out of some of the teams members and their leader makes me sincerely think otherwise.

The goal of SPV3 was to do what other Halo games never did, and provide a sandbox with more features and complexities that were introduced in later games, while retaining the feel of Halo 1. We set out in mind to further develop all the good things people enjoyed and embellishing on ideas that were planned but never made it in, specifically in the second half of the campaign. With a tagset like Halo's, it's impossible to fully exploit everything in the sandbox in a single mission, which is why focusing on updating the original campaign, and adding areas and levels is attractive to us. It is also highly "marketable" it's the Halo 1 campaign updated with everything that fans have wanted, and time and time again it's proven to be something people look at and it grabs their interest. At conventions, youtube, reddit, and so on you'll often see "This is what HCE Anniversary should have been, this is just what I wanted in Halo 2, etc.

When it comes to TSC:E, Lumoria, and even official spin off games (ODST, Reach, Halo Wars), it's unfortunate these don't have the same appeal to people out there, regardless of the quality of the game/map/story. Keep in mind, I find 2 of those official games my favorites in the franchise, and there are aspects of both those mod projects I deeply enjoy, and it was Lumoria that made me want to get back into HCE. The truth is that being part of something big and already established has deeper "market penetration" than something smaller and original, even if it is better to certain groups. Make no mistake, TSC:E and Lumoria both have demonstrated more creativity when it comes to their art, story, and level design. And if that is what you are looking for in a project that in a project than by all means go play and consider them your favorites.

We designed SPV3 to appeal to as many people as possible, so sorry if it doesn't fit whatever niche you are looking to be filled. If you've been following SPV3 and like what you see, you know what you are getting into when you play it. if you don't then it's not for you. The general public outside the HCE community loves what's being done, and those are the people we are trying to attract.

That's all I really have to say on the matter.

The petulant diatribes in this thread are absolute disgraces to the Halo Custom Edition community.

I get that many of you (not pointing the finger at anyone specifically) are intensely bitter over lacking meaningful lives, and also missing the level of productivity that CMT has displayed, but to berate someone you don't actually know like this is utterly idiotic.

If you're interested in curing your misery;

http://www.wikihow.com/Grow-Up-and-Get-a-Life

http://www.awesomeyourlife.com/2013/01/how-do-i-get-a-life-the-5-step-answer/

If not having a life is the problem and you're just jealous of the attention CMT is getting, why not start a project that will attract just as many followers?

Regardless of motivation, I'd suggest you stop now before one of us decides to call in Dennis and force you along the recommended path through reprimanding.

Ever feel like it might become too complex? I feel like one of the things that made the original Halos great was their simplicity.

That we will see. In terms of the weapon matrix the original game had, we've broken some down into sub matrices, and then you have weapons that fall outside or the weapon matrix and are more of tools to solve situations you are in, like the needler or PP overcharge. The idea is to present the player challenges, and make them think about what tools at their disposal are best to use to get by it. The beauty of H1 is that you can master any tool to get through the game on legendary with it's mechanics kicking at 100%, same holds true with us. You can make it through a mission with nothing but AR and Pistol if you wish, but there are far easier options. However if you enjoy using those weapons the whole mission, there is nothing stopping you, at least for the first half of the game.

When did hypocrisy become cool, again?

People like you should really just stay away from these discussions. They do not concern you, nor do you have anything useful/relevant to say.

@Masterz
I know what the goal of SPv3 is, I'm aware it's aimed at a more casual audience. That's all fine with me. But I do disagree with it being more appealing than some of the other projects, even for that particular audience.

Does it have more exposure? Yes, of that I am sure. So I don't think it's meaningful to claim that SPv3 has, per definition, more appeal than the other. I still do not understand why you would even want to claim your project is more appealing. You understand surely that such claims do not go over well with people who know the mentioned projects better than a casual audience. Obviously I'm not just talking about myself, others here have demonstrated similar concerns. And I'd imagine the TSC:E team would make a frowny face too when reading such statements.

And that is really all I was saying.

@beaucephal
You are a cool guy. Keep doing what you're doing.

I'm finding myself agreeing with the Lodeman more.
The question I want to ask: Masterz, why do you feel the necessity to appeal to a wider audience? Sure, marketing and stuff but I think in a community such as this where we've experienced mods large and small, wouldn't the thoughts from members here (to an extent) have more integrity than those from the outside?
No I'm not xenophobic o_o

I think nostalgia should NOT be something that dampens quality.
Masterz, the way you've phrased your statements makes it seem so.

From what I can gather, marketing and nostalgia played a minimal role in the TSC:E project. They simply had 'best of the best' quality attitude, be it gameplay, aesthetics, whatever. If they wanted it changed completely they did it; I think that's why TSC:E became such a high quality product. It's probably why Lodeman and Higuy are siding with its ideals more than SPV3.