Halo Maps Forum

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
But it's not an opinion that 60FPS is better than 30FPS. It is a FACT. A word that most people on Halomaps can't tell the difference of what is a fact and an opinion. That's why I called Masterz a retard and rightfully so.

I'm at pains to start flaming here, but honestly, what, if anything are you trying to contribute to this discussion? Your own bile and truculence doesn't count. You don't get to 'rightfully' use derogatory and bigoted language like you do. Disagree all the hell you like, but do try and grow up.

An opinion is a personal belief or view. "Like," "enjoy" and "hate" are objective words that form an opinion. Thus what Masterz said and what you said are opinions. You like 60fps, Masterz likes 30fps, both opinions.

You even called what Masterz said an opinion:

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
Just get out of video games. That is the dumbest opinion I have ever heard from you.

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
You're both idiots for damage controlling for Masterz.

Nobody's running damage control here. You, however, are frankly a thoroughly nasty little piece of work. It's a shame nobody's running damage control on your toxic rambling.

as an animator, when you're used to animating at 30 then see your animations at 60, it looks weird as hell. You can always just go at 45 and see how it sort of balances out but damn is it weird

Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode

Quote: --- Original message by: Ki11erFTW
Halo 1 was designed to be played at 30fps. I personally lock the game at 30fps because everything flows smoothly together. Anything higher and it's not as enjoyable for me do the the fact that the camera is literally the only thing that can move higher then 30fps.

Coming from another DEVELOPER it's smarter to lock Halo at 30 FPS mainly because, like I said, things get messed up at anything higher. The game also only lets me record unit animations at 30fps. If the game was designed with 60fps in mind maybe my opinion would be different, however there's even issues with the game on TMCC because of it.

Bottom line, it's an old game, and it's flaws are from its restrictions because it was built to run on older hardware. Certain things in the engine need to be completely overhauled for it to feel right at 60fps or higher.

As a DEVELOPER I can also agree with this, because you give good arguments and remain open-minded to the 60 fps prospect, had it been designed with that framerate.

I personally do prefer my modern games with 60 fps, when everything is catered to it. Animations, a wee bit of motion blur and all that.

developer had to be in caps cause I thought I saw someone busting masters balls, but yeah if the game was designed to run properly at 60FPS Id play it at that speed. Also, regarding the FPS issues, it's even possible to walk through trigger volumes faster then the game can realize you're in one due to the fact the game's in game tick time does not fixate itself to the speed of the FPS, in result breaking entire campaign levels. This happens to me everytime I play A50 on TMCC

I'm with masters with how it looks different but honestly something about that smoothness is so satisfying to look at.

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
as an animator, when you're used to animating at 30 then see your animations at 60, it looks weird as hell. You can always just go at 45 and see how it sort of balances out but damn is it weird

But does it look better if you get known to it?

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
Well I'm not sorry that I mostly state facts.

Oho.

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
How the hell are you a developer again?
Just get out of video games. That is the dumbest opinion I have ever heard from you.
you freaking retard
I called Masterz a retard and rightfully so.
most people on Halomaps can't tell the difference of what is a fact and an opinion.
You're both idiots
you stupid idiots
Shut up Zetren, nobody cares about you bringing up stupid drama.
No, you stupid idiot.

Ohohohoho.

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
The regulars here like you said are cancerous and unfunny.

Well, that's pretty rich from the likes of you.

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
I only come here if I want to show off what I have done for Halo

OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO. Get out.
Edited by beaucephal on Sep 17, 2015 at 05:46 AM
Edited by beaucephal on Sep 17, 2015 at 05:46 AM

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
Well I'm not sorry that I mostly state facts.

Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama

Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Personally, I hate 60 FPS. Everything looks fake and unrealistic, no matter what game I've played. I don't get the fascination with it.

So you hate smooth and better responsive gameplay? I hate to see what you think of 120FPS. How the hell are you a developer again?

I enjoy that aspect of it, but in real life when things are moving so quickly you got motion blur, and the realistic amounts of motion blur you'd get when seeing things moving like they do in games would just be annoying.

I prefer the cinematic look for the games medium. Take a look at Arkham Knight or Gears remastered, looks perfectly fine and great in 30 FPS.

I agree, focus on motion blur for the real movement affect.
Halo 5 has no motion blur and everything just moves, and it hurts my eyes.

Quote: --- Original message by: beaucephal

Quote: --- Original message by: Isxz
I will ask again, if someone can reply me: Are the Halo 1 animations in 60 FPS on the TMCC game, or just the stock 30 FPS?. I never played TMCC and, by the YouTube videos, I can't see difference.

Halo 1 animations are 60FPS in TMCC.

Halo 1 anniversary has animations that are on par with Food Fight.
Edited by Grunter on Sep 17, 2015 at 09:03 AM

Quote: --- Original message by: greyhamism

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
Well I'm not sorry that I mostly state facts.

http://img.memecdn.com/hurr-durr-muh-60fps_o_5691989.jpg

What does this have to do with anything? The 60 FPS vs 30 FPS debate isn't tied to just PC unless you want to say all the PS4 fans calling Xbox fans a pile of sticks because some game runs at 60 FPS for them belong to PCMR.

Quote: --- Original message by: Ki11erFTW
developer had to be in caps cause I thought I saw someone busting masters balls

Don't worry I was just poking fun at everyone emphasizing their role.
Personally I don't give a person's opinion more merit if they have a certain role. I just look rationally at their arguments.

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama
But it's not an opinion that 60FPS is better than 30FPS. It is a FACT. A word that most people on Halomaps can't tell the difference of what is a fact and an opinion. That's why I called Masterz a retard and rightfully so.

It's very apparent that you do not understand the difference between Fact and Opinion, as this is one of the most childish things I've ever heard come from you. At least it's more mature than the other crap you've posted, i'll give you props for that one.

Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Personally, I hate 60 FPS. Everything looks fake and unrealistic, no matter what game I've played. I don't get the fascination with it.

Solid agreement with you there man.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Sep 17, 2015 at 02:29 PM

"Luckey explained that virtual reality requires much higher frame rates than what you need on a typical screen."

Just a verbatim quote from the second paragraph there. You did read that far, didn't you?

Kay, you got me there, but... *drumroll* that's still just Palmer Luckey's opinion. Not fact, opinion. Sure, it's the opinion of a dude who has a certain amount of authority on the issue, but that still doesn't give you carte blanche to go round being an ass to people and trying to pass opinion off as fact.

You can have your personal opinion on how much you like 30fps over 60fps, or how much "better" you think it looks to you. Good on you.

But you can't then turn that around and push it as a fact that 30fps is somehow in any capacity better for gaming.

As a developer for custom edition there is merit in saying I need to use 30fps because "I need to record animations correctly", or "I need consistency in animation and camera movement".

But out there in the post 2004 world, a developer should consider 30fps as a relic of the past.

As I've wrote previously lower FPS means higher input latency, and/or motion sickness and unplayability.

I think all of you need to take a step back and look at what you're discussing.
If its about CE theres a few understandable reasons to use 30 fps.
But if you're going to talk about a "modern" game, check your facts.

Here's a decent video about refresh rates and their importance with "typical screens" that isn't exclusively opinions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWZ_kWTB9w

And some more factual articles from 2001 that are about that same topic.
http://amo.net/nt/02-21-01fps.html
http://amo.net/nt/05-24-01fps.html

Quote: --- Original message by: xTankbeast
Would it be possible to fix the animations and make them play in 60 fps or more? Or is it just hard coded into the engine that the animations have to be in 30 fps?

I do wish for an update that gave us interpolated animations � la Halo 2 Vista. Perhaps the game mechanics wouldn't update 60+ times a second (AI, projectiles, physics, etc.), but the animations would so it would at least looks smooth.

This thread gave me cancer

Quote: --- Original message by: Grunter
Halo 1 anniversary has animations that are on par with Food Fight.
Edited by Grunter on Sep 17, 2015 at 09:03 AM

I seriously question if you have ever even played halo 1. All I've seen you post about is how 343 killed halo but your saying 343 killed halo over things bungie did. Lmao. Atleast find a credible reason to dislike 343 rather then ride on a bandwagon so you can "fit in" with other people on this forum.
Edited by MEGASEAN2812 on Sep 17, 2015 at 08:31 PM
Edited by MEGASEAN2812 on Sep 17, 2015 at 08:31 PM

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama

Quote: It's very apparent that you do not understand the difference between Fact and Opinion, as this is one of the most childish things I've ever heard come from you. At least it's more mature than the other crap you've posted, i'll give you props for that one.

Nick... I want you to read this and kindly shut the **** up.

Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000
It's very apparent that you do not understand the difference between Fact and Opinion,

Also, as a helper, when/if you can equate your experience with other experienced mapmakers on this forum, only then can you can begin to understand what this statement means. Otherwise I hope you enjoy continually making yourself look dumb :P

Aahahahahahaa! This rules!

Also, framerate will not compensate for poorly executed animating, that's why there's an uncanny valley. The animations don't even have to be realistic, they just have to be believable with the game's overall art-style. But of course, people overspecialize and think animation alone can keep cinematography afloat

And in this case, cinematography in a videogame engine

Which can also be applied to non-cutscene action
Edited by OrangeJuice on Sep 17, 2015 at 10:19 PM

Subpar animation is one of many issues that comes with high framerates

Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337

Quote: --- Original message by: DoodleSama

Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Personally, I hate 60 FPS. Everything looks fake and unrealistic, no matter what game I've played. I don't get the fascination with it.

So you hate smooth and better responsive gameplay? I hate to see what you think of 120FPS. How the hell are you a developer again?

lol not to go about smashing opinions but really??? you do realize that the motion blur in most games is part of the graphics settings. i hate motion blur too so i always disable it.

the later halo games have higher framerates for animations (when ported to the mcc) and they look just fine

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
Subpar animation is one of many issues that comes with high framerates

That's really a failure of the animator then. It's not something you can just blame on higher framerate.

Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
Subpar animation is one of many issues that comes with high framerates

That's really a failure of the animator then. It's not something you can just blame on higher framerate.

I'm guessing what he's saying is that it's more difficult to disguise bad animations. Which is pretty true tbh. I still remember the first time I got a computer powerful enough to play Quake II at high FPS (Hello Pentium II and Voodoo Banshee you sexy beasts) and realised how terribad Id's then-current interpolation algorithm looked.

sound dude is on the right track. I guess I should have clarified my statement, apologies.

Animating FP is all about cheating what you cant see, which lets you get away with some really fancy stuff. Third Person is less forgiving because the only angles you don't really see from are directly above or below (usually).

However, the one BIG advantage of high framerates is clipping. Go look at the animations for Vindictus and Crysis 2/3 in slow mo. You'll notice that both of these games (which are intended to run at 60+ FPS) have so much clipping in slow mo that you don't see unless its slowed down. Given, I'm a stickler for clipping no matter what, but it's an option there atleast.

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
sound dude is on the right track. I guess I should have clarified my statement, apologies.

Animating FP is all about cheating what you cant see, which lets you get away with some really fancy stuff. Third Person is less forgiving because the only angles you don't really see from are directly above or below (usually).

However, the one BIG advantage of high framerates is clipping. Go look at the animations for Vindictus and Crysis 2/3 in slow mo. You'll notice that both of these games (which are intended to run at 60+ FPS) have so much clipping in slow mo that you don't see unless its slowed down. Given, I'm a stickler for clipping no matter what, but it's an option there atleast.

man, you really know a lot of animating huh?

https://vine.co/v/eDqubzlguIt

Look at this vid, high fps can give you good results, this looks near-organic
Edited by lolslayer on Sep 18, 2015 at 03:22 PM

Quote: --- Original message by: lolslayer

Your point has little to nothing to do with what R93 is saying.
He's talking about hiding discrepancies of animation in low FPS. There is nothing there to argue that high framerates won't give you good results.

Quote: --- Original message by: lolslayer
man, you really know a lot of animating huh?

https://vine.co/v/eDqubzlguIt

Look at this vid, high fps can give you good results, this looks near-organic
Edited by lolslayer on Sep 18, 2015 at 03:22 PM

Yes, I do. Animating for roughly 7 years does that to you.

I'm noticing a lot of clipping errors in the movement of the feet. It looks less organic and more "extremely forced" to me. It could be the FPS or the animation, but quite frankly I can't tell offhand (though im leaning more towards the prior than the latter for this one.)

Quote: --- Original message by: Spartan314
There is nothing there to argue that high framerates won't give you good results.

The entire latter half of this thread really is just that argument, though. I personally have to take some time to get used to it because I've always just played at either 30 or 45 FPS myself. 60 FPS is really nice and smooth but its hard to sit and play a 60 FPS game for as several hours on end as I would a 30 FPS one. It tends to strain my eyes a bit since there's a lot more information being put in your face in the same amount of time
Edited by R93_Sniper on Sep 19, 2015 at 01:47 AM

If an animation is perfect then regardless of framerate it'll be the same goodness portrayed wouldn't it?
I consider fps as a style feature more than anything else. Some people prefer 60 fps, some people prefer 30 fps.
For what it's worth, I do like 60 fps. More info processed by my brain makes me happy.

perfection in an animation is completely subjective. I personally animate at 30, so I can personally tell when my animations are alright in 30, but in 60 the entire look and feel of the animation can change significantly.

clipping as in . . ?

Clipping is a term used by animators when they seek assistance of this guy:

Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
clipping as in . . ?

You can see animation clipping using BXR in Halo 2. What R93 means, I think, is the same effect within one animation.

Some frames would basically be missing.