If a vehicle is rooted in place, and there's an AI on the turret, then it does sync to some extent. as long as the AI has no control over the movement.

Yoko? honestly? I spoke to you about him numerous times over the past 4 months and now you fail to recognize him. tut tut.

As for AI syncing? as long as the biped theory works, who cares about 100% syncing?

:D

Ah, I see.

It will also be just a little bit pregnant. Syncing has no grey area. It does or it doesn't. Which means that if it "does to a certain extent" then it doesn't.

GOD I LOVE THIS GUYS HUMOR!

By that i meant that it syncs only if it has no control over the movement of the vehicle. Turning is fine.

Nope. Turning doesn't sync either. It's AI aiming.

Have you tried it?

Hey after spending days reading this junk about how AI can't sync and knowing that what you guys want is a multiplayer campaign mode i came across an idea that I think everyone mightl like: A team campaign. It's basically capture the flag or team slayer with campaign objectives. Instead of fighting Ai you'd be fighting other players who respawn at different points of the map, to get an objective done, And each side has their own story. now i don't know if it's ever been tried but doesn't it sound fun?
P.S. Don't ask me how I know this will work. I just come uo with the ideas see my avatar quote

All I can say is, Dennis pwns. After years moderating the site, I can't imagine he doesn't know what he's talking about. I bet if he made some maps they'd be beast.

*Sigh*.

@Carter: Um i'm not sure what your suggesting. But it doesn't sound anything like AI that sync's over an internet game. So please make your own topic for it...



@Petera275: I'm sure Dennis is a pro at halo modding. And he probable knows more then most people on this site (myself included) But i believe what i'm suggesting has never been tried before. So thats why i posted to see if my theory can be proved. And if it does we'll finally have a decent team firefight. And i can modify a map so it's only compatible for 4/6 players So we have less players to worry about syncing issues

Syncing is definitely impossible due to engine restrictions, as Dennis said. The only way to rectify this would be for some serious engine modifying. Syncing isn't a big deal anyway. You can still have a pretty good time watching the other players appear to shoot at nothing. Okay, that was stupid. On a more serious note, syncing isn't a big problem. I know people who have made perfectly good co-op mods, even if they don't sync, they're still fun, and there are still multiple players in a map with AI. Basically, screw syncing, it's not needed anyway. Even games like Gears of War have problems with syncing (though minor ones, I'll admit) and that's over 7 years of progress after CE. You'll need a programming genius if you want to do what you propose. Either that, or you need to somehow replicate programming strings from a modern game enabling co-op. Co-op is fairly recent, isn't it? Before, it was just the drop-in, drop-out thing where you had to play on the same PC/console for it to work.

So, in other words, what we've been saying all along is...






AI will never, EVER sync in Halo PC's BLAM! engine. Ever. As Dennis has said, it either works or it doesn't, and in Halo PC, it does NOT.

My comments are purely technical in nature and are not an objective measure of what people consider fun in the game.

The fact that it's designed for a 56kbps connection does not mean that it cannot exceed that limit. The size of data which would be very small and how frequent it sends the data would be long. If there was a script function which directly sent a packet to the client and you were to call it frequently (in a continuous script) there would be nothing stopping or slowing it down to work for 56kbps. Anyone with dial-up would simply be unable to handle it, everyone else would be fine.

Actually it does.

Unless someone modifies the current design...
Anyone good with programming?

I know a couple of people said they could do C++ and/or Visual Basic...

Simple to say it does with no explanation of how it works. The only thing thats limited is how often the information is sent and how much information is sent. Basically send the least amount of information as possible with the longest time between as possible, this is the logic they followed to support 56kbps. That's why when two vehicles collide you see one thing than the server updates and the vehicles are in completely different locations than what you originally saw. Vehicle collisions aren't very predictable so the client computes the collision differently than the server and with vehicle positions being updated in long intervals you see the client version for a couple of seconds. In my said scenario (which you completely ignored; your ignorance?) where there exists a function which sends a packet directly to the clients and you had it in a continuous script there'd be nothing limiting it. With your knowledge please do explain otherwise. Do so in some other manner than some childish response like "no your wrong". Instead actually have some thought to it. Not just using gearbox's word as to why it is or isn't when you clearly have no understanding of how it works with such a lame response as "Actually it does.", it's almost insulting.
Edited by Sprinkle on May 3, 2011 at 01:06 PM
Edited by Sprinkle on May 3, 2011 at 01:08 PM

The data rate is set by the frame size and clock rate and the frame size is fixed by the game engine and the clock rate is set for 56Kbps data stream. I am sorry you feel insulted. You are arguing a moot point. The game is just not capable of transmitting the required information to sync AI because it was not designed for it. People just don't want to accept that fact even after the developer of the game has stated it and argue incessantly without looking at the issue as a whole. Even the logic that no modern highly optimized game with server side determinism can sync AI and 16 players because even a broadband connection is too small seems to escape them.

This subject has been beaten to death and I am sure in six months time it will resurrect its ugly little head again with more claims of how it can be done. The answer still remains the same and I have gotten so tired of rehashing it with people that my answers have gotten short as if I were talking to a petulant child because after eight years of it that is exactly what it feels like.

Edited by Dennis on May 3, 2011 at 03:18 PM

And again i will say. I am not trying to sync "AI". I am trying to make something else that makes people think their seeing AI. I am fully aware that Actor_Variants will never sync. But vehicles do. So i thought maybe it was possible to make it work with that. If you still don't think this is possible could you explain why?. Because i see no reason why a vehicle, thats not driven by an Actor_Variant, cannot sync if it's moved by a different method
Edited by grunt_eater on May 3, 2011 at 09:33 PM

VEhicle position is the only thing that will sync, and it the AI has an intelligence at ALL, it won't sync.

Well, bud, i'd say you're almost better off requesting that someone aid you in the creation of the script required for what you are doing. Otherwise you'll be running into the exact same thing all over agin where people misunderstand, flame you, then get dennis pissed, then he flames them or just generally does his thing, and you'll be once again back to square one restating the point of this thread. So lets get this thing back on track: Could a trigger volume placed anywhere on the map be linked with a vehicle's turret in the sense that when it is triggered; the turret will "target" that area? (I'm guessing it would somehow involve the same principles as the neddler projectile does.)

HOMING1!!!!!!!!11!!!. Thats what i'v been saying the entire time. If you make the projectile "Homing, or heat seeking," enough it will constantly seek you out. Only thing you have to make sure is it's not homing enough that it always hits. Otherwise it will kill you to fast and not be fun. Lol. Now we're getting on the same page.


And slappy i still don't think you understand. The AI will not be in control of anything. Because the AI won't exist. Non at all.
Edited by grunt_eater on May 3, 2011 at 10:02 PM

Doing this will require a TON of scripting, and idk if there's anyone able and/or willing to take on such a large project.

Not to mention the fact that when new people join, those scripts will then be out of sync for them.

In essence, it still won't sync, AI or no.

Take vehicle respawn scripts for instance. Host makes the server, sees one vehicle in its spawn point. Client joins, sees two in one spawn. Scripts can't be fully transmitted over Halo's crappy 56k network, so again, it will not sync.

When have you ever joined a game and seen two warthogs stacked on top of each other and only one will be usable?. Because i'v only ever see one. Witch is why i think it will sync if you make them this way

nope, cause when someone new joins they see a new Ai there side "Homing" in on them, but this ai can run them over or w/e and it wont kill them, until the Host AI Homes onto the new target.

The AI will still not sync.

You need to try what KillerKip was doing

/Thread

All the time. I'm surprised you haven't.

Never. And i'v played halo for 2 years. Halo. Halo trial. and Halo CE. And never have i seen that

okay this one is mostly for dennis but anyone can answer. i know its not "AI" if it does this but if you have say a marine driving a warthog, and 10/10 times that warthog is set to go in a strait line down the map, would that sync online? my point is: if you remove the randomness of ai, (which i realize wouldnt make them ai anymore but instead puppets) will they THEN sync thru a lan atleast? if you had every inch choreographed, would they sync then?

No It still wouldn't sync, a new AI will be added when ever a new player joins, seeing the "fake" AI going on a certain track, but the player can not interact with it, cause techinicaly its not there, the host sees you killing imaginary ghost people like in an RPG server.

before you actually catch dennis' attention... Bipeds don't sync, vehicles don't sync entirely; especialy when moving which is why you simetimes try to avoid being squashed in multiplayer by predicting a vehicles movements but fail anyways because the other player "warps" ontop of you. Its the same applied principle with bipeds; the server has no way of knowing each and every players exact location all the time(this having something to do with the different player "pings"). This also applys to bullets and nades; same issue. To get what you are asking to sync you'd have to have perfect connections for every player(matching pings) as well as revamp the engine in order for it to track each and every movement of every object and or player. But please, don't take my word for it; do try it and share what you've found.

Try joining as a client in my latest release of AoTCR or Whiteout and THEN tell me that you don't see more than two vehicles.

The rest of us have been playing for much longer than that. I, for example, have been in the Halo PC community for close to eight years. CE community, close to five years.

Because the rest of us have been here longer, we've seen much more than you have. I'm honestly surprised that you haven't seen more glitches. Then again, you've probably been playing BG, Hugeass, Coldsnap and Extinction for the past two years, not delving into the vast ocean of maps available at your disposal here and instead keeping to that small pond of maps.

Actually, Star Wars Battlefront II for pc can play with 16 players and syncing ai, and the number of players can go up to 32 players.

You're using a moving vehicle as demonstration there.
A vehicles stuck in one spot has no movement, and because the turret angle changes and projectiles sync, then the ai will sync. limited in what it can do, but it will sync.