You guys know he is talking about taking a biped model/animations/collision and making a vehicle out of them right?

Hhhnnnggg...

*sigh* So how does that vehicle move? Do you see the question that I'm trying to get you to answer?
Edited by The Cereal Killer on Apr 29, 2011 at 06:44 PM

@TehArtyom

i think since i'v said exactly that about 20 times before everyone is on the same page now
Edited by grunt_eater on Apr 29, 2011 at 06:44 PM

No you are wrong, he is actually talking about taking a biped model/animations/collision and making a vehicle out of them right?

I thought he was taking a .vehicle and making a biped/AI out of it by switching the model, animations and collisions to that of the biped/AI...

I think that this is going to be too much work for anyone to properly implement on a regular basis. Any newbie who just wants to mod their favourite map (Bloodgulch, mainly) doesn't want to go through all the trouble of placing markers everywhere to get "syncing" AI.

And to think that you're going to have to do this for other kinds of AI that you want in that map?

Too much work, too little output. Just drop it.

The OP wants the biped-vehicle move to attack players, yes?

Using that theory, I surmised that you'd have to place markers everywhere to have the biped-vehicle follow you to continue attacking you, thus making the biped-vehicle more like an AI.

So you're sliding the vehicle across the surface of another object...

1. When it reaches the end of that object, what happens? You just have dummy vehicles lined up along paths you want it to take?

2. You said the reason you didn't use flags was because your method offered mobility. In what way is that mobile at all? The vehicle it's being attached to cannot be moved, it's the same thing as flags except the flags are invisible - i.e. the point I was making before, when you kept going around in circles every time I asked how you'd move it. If the dummy vehicles are invisible, why bother using vehicles at all?!

3. It would most certainly not look smooth.

Overall, you are starting to contradict your previous statements more and more, and I would ask of you now to simply admit that we are right in stating that AI or simulations thereof are not useable or practical in multiplayer games.
Edited by The Cereal Killer on Apr 29, 2011 at 07:50 PM

It's not hard to understand the concept, I'm just trying to get you to say all of it in your own posts. I've had it happen too many times where I conclude what someone is saying because I see where they're going, only to have them turn around and say, "no that's not what I was planning at all," after I prove their originally intended method impossible.

Now that we've seen the full process in your own words, let's return to the major point of it all, what I said in my second(?) post in the thread:
I'd also like to add that the object being teleported to another position that often and quickly would most certainly not be smooth for clients - you say you've seen it and it's smooth, but now imagine up to 16 people all connected and playing. Is it going to sync well? Nope.

Now on top of all of that, we have another thing to consider. Scripts execute separately on each client's machine, and they begin executing at the time the client loads the map. This ensures that absolutely none of what you're talking about would work in the least, it would completely wreck any smoothness that may have existed in the vehicle's movement across the object, and it would also ruin the changing of directions. Even if all the people who you plan to play the map with are in the lobby when the map is loaded, they will load it at slightly different times; and since you move the object 30 times per second, even a tiny bit of difference would destroy the synchronization.
Edited by The Cereal Killer on Apr 29, 2011 at 08:50 PM

I'd like to point out that in the globals tag you can change the amount of players allowed to join the game. That being said you could make it so only 4 to 6 people can play a. Say. firefight?, together. If you don't believe me look here http://img717.imageshack.us/f/exampledk.png/

In maps with a lot of vehicles, I see them teleport around all the time (disappearing, reappearing in a different spot that may or may not make sense). Halo 1's netcode just isn't good enough for all of that you're trying to do, as Dennis said.

I'm a bit lost now after reading all of that... umm... is he attempting to use a method for vehicle-biped motion and targetting similar to what is used for "auto doors" in multiplayer? Because i could see this functioning as he wants only one way (i posted that earlier) but his drawing and explenation of it confused me >_<

Basically. We're trying to make a vehicle that moves around and looks like an AI. You probably already know that. What we'v been arguing about is how to go about making them move. ASP GRUNT came up with a way but people just don't seem to grasp it. They say they understand it ,but when they start talking about the problems that they think will come with it, it sounds like their talking about something completely different.

Look, basically this bro, his "method" for achieving this is completely impractical and would probably not sync well anyways. You on the other hand know absolutely nothing. So please, give up this frivolous argument about something you don't understand and finish your assassinations that you claimed were almost done.

This post legitimately made me laugh XD

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't destructive vehicles not sync in MP?
I do presume you want these 'AI' to be able to be killed?

Also, from what I read in this thread, is your plan to make the 'AI' have an effect which launches a projectile towards a trigger volume when the player is inside it?
If so, how exactly do you plan on making said projectile actually hit? Unless the map is literally covered in trigger volumes the size of a player, there would be the margin of error inside the trigger volume.

There was also mentions of heat-seaking projectiles, aka homing such as the needler. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I do not think that projectiles spawned from an effect home in on an target, even with it enabled.

@Mythril I have tested an they do seek when spawned by an effect.

@Bobblehob. I have already made the assassination. But since i'm not done animating anything yet all it is is melee that you can't move when you use it. I had stopped working on the animating, because of something that happened in my personal life, and have recently picked it back up. i hope to have it done soon and post it.

mmk then, firing part down.

What about non-syncing vehicle destruction in MP?

Then show us a video, I am sure that a bunch of people, myself included, would want to see it.

I know no way of fixing that...IDK but this would work for AI that you don't fight like to make them be in a battle with eachother

A strange idea you have. A couple of thoughts:

-Bipeds sync, so why not use bipeds?

-Consider Vehicle physics vs Biped physics

- I don't think move scripts would exactly sync online, I might be mistaken, you can try for yourself.

- If nothing goes wrong, then you're left with a random vehicle-enemy running around the map and shooting randomly.

Vehicles can't shoot without a player pulling the trigger regardless of what they look like, scripting vehicle movement while possible is not workable since the script runs at a different clock rate than the data stream updates and is not in sync so the movements will be jerky, warping and cause lag in a multi-player game as the updates from each client fall further out of sync. This is why even biped crush scripts cause lag and fall out of sync. The update rate is different than the script rate. Then there is the fact that the ONLY thing in the game that acts like an AI (Actor Variant) is an AI because the game is coded to handle vehicles and bipeds differently from AI and scenery.

Other than it is a technical impossibility to transmit the required data to sync AI in a server side deterministic model with sixteen players across a 56Kbps data pipe and that the game was never designed to do so and doesn't have the facility built into it to transmit much less receive that amount or type of data I am quite confident that you will figure it out eventually. Besides the entertainment factor of watching people beat their heads against the proverbial wall is well worth the price of admission.

^If there were sigs, I would so sig that.
-
OT: So wait, seeing as you know no way of getting across the un-syncing destructible vehicles bit, you're just making the 'AI' sit there in the side fighting each other?
If it's just for the aesthetics- sentinels flying around, etc, why would you even need it to sync?

I am SO tired of seeing these threads.

Why cant you make a biped that stands completely still and fires directly at one spot?
Theres not really anything to sync there...

If it is. How often does the server update may i ask?

Considering you joined very recently with NO proof of work at all, I don't think you can reply to someone who has been here for approximately five to six years like that. It also is a proven method, I've tested it with him before.

I guess you haven't read my thread then: http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm%3Fpage=topic&topicID=37002

I mentioned I joined this site very recently. I have been, however, part of the CE community on ModHalo for quite some time and am fully experienced and capable within my area of expertise (which is outlined beneath my avatar).

I'll concede though, perhaps I was being rude. I do recall being extremely frustrated yesterday and I apologize for the tone I took in discussing it.
Edited by The Cereal Killer on Apr 30, 2011 at 02:42 PM

Your apology is appreciated and i do see why people are telling me that what i'm trying is impossible. But for some reason it seems that many of them are just dropping in, in the middle of a discussion that is going quite well, and saying things like. I mean that makes no contribution to the overall goal. If your saying that because it hasn't in the past. We're trying something that i believe has never been done before.

Go ahead and do it than, What makes you different?

We've all tried it at one point. heck we even used apps to try to make it sync. The engine is to old ant the netcode is even worse. Ai will not Sync in this current stage.

On the subject... does anyone know how many trigger volumes can be attatched to bipeds or in this case biped-vehicles? I ask because if in fact there is no limit to the number or distance away from the biped-vehicle for the triggers; then there shouldn't be any lag at all or syncing issues because the triggers would be permanently synced with the vehicle-biped thus syncing them with the host(or server) vehicle.

As for the issue of non-syncing destructable vehicles or in this case, killable vehicle-bipeds, i had started a thread on the subject of script-based vehicle to object(scenery) replacement wherein when a vehicles' occupants are killed the vehicle is replaced by an object that looks like a destroyed vehicle(or in this case a corpse) triggering an automatic respawn of that vehicle back at base. I'm not sure how well this would work seeing as these vehicle-bipeds would have no passengers.(you could possibly make another trigger volume that barely fits over the biped-vehicles that is "triggered" only by explosives like grenades and such.)

This may be stretching things but I don't know; i await response from someone whose computer doesn't have a grudge against all things Halo-modding related.

It's all academic anyway because you can't transmit the required data to sync all the movement across the network connection because it is limited a less than a 56K data stream.

What people are trying to accomplish is like trying to modify a Volkswagen to work and function like a Airbus A320 based on the logic that they both carry people.



To the original posters point there is no reason why he can't have an AI monitor floating around in the game because as long as it is not shooting players or required to interact with the players it would be like animated scenery where it doesn't matter if it syncs.
Edited by Dennis on Apr 30, 2011 at 06:24 PM

:)

i just wanna say i like it when people are trying to be creative, thinking outside of the box and trying to accomplish the impossible.
what i get so tired of is disrespect, put-downs and just plain rudeness as shown by such members as cerial killer, however he has since apologised.

eater, you've done well to ignore such rudeness. many people attempted to fly before it was finally accomplished and many criticised, laughed and said it was impossible.
even if what eater is trying to do isnt accomplished, something else might come out of it like an automatic turret or something else that syncs such as a train as what is being developed in another thread.

things get developed/created through discussion/brainstorming, even if the original aim isnt accomplished, so much more would be developed here if everyone put their creative minds together and worked as one rather than one person attempting something and 5 people telling him he's an idiot. i guess a lot of you just arent mature enough to understand that yet.

please note the title of this thread ' i THINK i MITE have thought of a way to make AI sync online', this is an invitation for thoughts/discussion/ideas but a lot of you just cant help urself, u have to jump in and let everyone know that you know it all, be nasty and put he who is trying to be creative, down. u need to ask urself, y would u do that? to boost ur own self esteem? make urself feel big and knowledgeable on the topic? u just sound rude and ignorant.

eater, members like u keep the forums alive.

nice pic jess
Edited by Ubergoober on Apr 30, 2011 at 11:26 PM

Jesse i like your style. Now that i think we'v gotten the point of being polite and helping across. Now i think we should get a back on track I know it would be out of sync for destructible vehicles but could we make the AI-vehicles shoot before that?. And work on some way for killing them later

I'd like to politely say now that any implementations of methods suggested in this thread would result in too many scripts to function smoothly.