If a new player takes the tag, sticks it in a map, and learns a bit from it - where's the harm in that? I don't really see your reasoning here.

well....other thing is take a look at all the h3_map flying around now...let take sphinxbio to talk about....

beats me...map are just made for fun...why can't poeple have fun?

hell right...

Quite simply: because people are under the impression that they own these toys.

maybe someone can just solve the prob soon?

let me run you back to a time before your join date
so lasy year this person figured out how to ripp halo ce maps that are protected (mattdratt) and decided to teach everyone how to rip... then there were all these ripped tags laying allover the place and people starting making maps and releasing sphinxibo,mangenkyo, forestkeller ,dratt, and many more others including I (wich i dont do anymore and most people dont)

so when it became a big issue here everyone stopped uploading maps except people who had no clue what was going on. they figured if they dont feed the rippers then they will starve. well they did partially. sometime this year or last it was 1 motn 2 weeks of good map starvation... until revelations was released then it took people another 3 weeks until they figured it was over. and this is why people hate ripping. also people who rip some not all will give credit to the people who ripped it for them not the team or the people who helped make the tags. (sphinxibo)


and so this is why there is this arguement every week. now if people were smart and shutup about how gamma protected his map... we wouldnt have a problem. now we have to wait for someone to make a new protector tool (kornmann) hopefully.

and that is the story. anything else im missing

No. it's because people don't want 20 versions of the same BSP with relatively the same tagset, in relatively the same position, all named zanzibar (for example), and you can never HAVE fun because no one is on the same version. The object is to make maps for online play when making MP maps, when too many versions exist, your objective is incomplete since the only thing people will see of your map maybe is, (*Joins lan game with only him/herself* *checks out map and says* "hmm nothing looks different". *Closes map and never plays again cuz any servers there are hosting one of the other 20 versions*

rippers gonna rip. you can either deal with it, cry about it, or get out



sorry but I have to stress to you that discussions don't end because you say they do. you have no power over what people do and don't post, regardless of what you may believe. welcome to the internet, everything's free game



idk, I read that part as "everything that came stock with the game belongs to us." it doesn't necessarily specify this applies to user made content

nvm since halo is a horrible game makes it so i cant quote..
Edited by Hydrogen on Dec 3, 2010 at 12:04 AM

re-edit that post.

well some people need to modify there messages so people can quote

u guys need to chill.....this war is like going on almost every month.....

I'm chill.. but these people think they can stop rippers by whining about it a whole bunch

Hmm... But what if you don't have internet connection? From that stand point I would feel like I 'own' the programs, because Microsoft/Bungie would have no clue what I'm doing with the programs if I didn't have internet.
(This is a stupid question, the way you would of gotten the programs is through the internet!)

I think the reason people are under this impression is because there is no "returen policy" For instance once you have the programs they cannot take it away easily(thus they feel like they own it.). Sure they can sue you and take away your computer. But not the programs. They would have to figure out a way to hack into your computer and remove the programs. Example: I steel an apple. I eat the apple. They want the apple back. What is the store going to do? (Crappy metaphor, but it's the best I could think of.)

In the end I understand they licence it to you. But from a certain view it still does feel like you own it.

As for the External lighting program, Dennis, when you posted that you must of known it would cause a huge reaction on the forums. Knowing that you still posted it? Just from my stand point, and I could be totally wrong, but it seems like you support 'taking'(if that's the word for it.) other peoples content. Or is it just because someone uploaded it and you feel obliged to post it? I don't know, what I do know is that posting is causing a huge uproar from the Halo: Ce community. I do believe this application can do good in the hands of good people. But if it falls into the wrong hands, that could mean no more betas, people not releasing their content, ect. Which could be a big blow to the community.

In short, I do not support or un-support this application. I just don't like to see the community 'argue'(if that's the correct word.) over it.

This is untrue and conflicts with the actual data in that map uploads have constantly increased since 2004.

The EULA I quoted was from the HEK, the game has a similar notice and there is a copyright on the intellectual property pertaining to the Halo franchise material.

I posted it because it is a utility that does not violate the game's copyright and has a use for map making. Just like I posted the HEK Plus utility which everyone said would completely ruin and destroy Halo map making and stop anyone from ever making another map. That was in 2005 and somehow it hasn't stopped people from making maps.

I have said it before: These are not your toys. What that means is you can not dictate what people do with them, or how they use them once you give them away. If that is unsettling to you then you shouldn't be playing with them. If and when you move to another game engine you will find that there is no "protection" for those game assets either. This is the nature of fan created content.

OMFG someone understands 100% where I am coming from!
Edited by eliteslasher on Dec 3, 2010 at 01:11 AM

You haven't read ONE of my posts have you!?!?!?

I
D
G
A
F

ABOUT RIPPERS!

I only care about people telling flat-out noobs on public forums how to work the ruin-my-work-machine. READ B4 you rage please.

You really haven't read a single one of my posts have you? They focus on this one thing NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP

let me say it a few more times what I'm trying to explain here.
NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP! NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP! NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP! NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP! NOOBS GETTING HELP TO RIP!

Do you understand yet?

If I gave a crap about rippers I would yell at every person who obviously just ripped h3, but I don't. Those tags are pretty nice because every person who has them has released decent maps with them in it or plans to in the future. Are you really that blind that you can't figure this out? This is far from an ETHICS issue. Look at the bigger picture, like that fact that an easy rip device is available for the NOOBS.

I don't care about rippers, only people giving help to noobs on how to sucessfully rip.

The worst part is, a person can join up one day, no one knows this guy, and the people who are solely content rippers (just to spit in the face of people who have taken the time, made the tags, tested, and released a map with the tags in it so the people can enjoy them in online gameplay) will say "Hey dude, welcome to the gang! Here's everything you need to about know to rip those douchy content creator's maps. Yeah those guys are sure jerks aren't they?!"
Have any of you ever noticed how really nice tags sometimes end up in pictures of maps but not in the finals? I wonder why? Oh right! Because rippers are willing to tell the secrets of the rips to every Tom Dick and Harry on the site the day they sign up just to spite content creator's. No appreciation for all the tags and maps supplied. Just your standard "Derp! Rippers gonna rip! DERP!"

Why won't you accept that if you would stop telling noobs how to rip, ask people occasionally if you really would like a tag (even asking, not getting permission, then ripping anyway shows that you give a care at least a bit for the time we spend to get cool content for YOU).

And what is wrong with noobs getting help to rip is that ...

A. Despite what... someone said earlier, you do not learn anything from ripping. I think it was maniac pointed out a while ago that everything you ever need to know can be learned with just the standard tags.
B. Noobs will rip the most popular maps if they could and that just means another version with little thought put into it is out there confusing people when they are looking for the good, thought-out versions.
C. This wouldn't be a problem if people would just stop posting their tag test maps to CE.

especially C.
I mean seriously, just how many BG mods, which are in essence just test maps, do we have to have on the site?

Dude. I have 1 map I just released. It has standard tags, I don't make tags really. When I do, I will plan to share them anyway. I am all for sharing. The whole reason I am really upset by this is I am trying to show reasons why rippers need to have a little more consideration for the creators. Most of the really good ones don't feel exactly like I do. I don't really care if people rip my map. I would like them to refrain at least until I have a better updated version with better tags and stuff, but I know I can't stop people.
Seriously, if rippers keep this up... let's just say I am glad I am friends with some good map makers cuz I get invited to things. (NOTE rippers and leakers usually don't tend to have this happen to them) You guys want more tags? New maps? A chance at ever being invited to a beta? Some appreciation may be in order every once in a while. If not, then keep up the good job with making people not want to release anything good. They don't have to release and if you guys keep it up... well they simply won't. That's all I'm saying.

True I can do that, or I can have these kinds of discussions in these ripping threads and try and get rippers to see from a creators point of view because it would be nice to see creators have some faith in this site again and actually release content because they know it will be appreciated.

All my arguments can only benefit the site. Sure rippers will rip, but if they at least show they care, they may end up getting people to release more. My arguments are actually for the benefit of rippers or just people who want to see more tags in the community and not sitting in a few members hard drives.
Edited by eliteslasher on Dec 3, 2010 at 03:09 AM

Assassin chief and Eliteslasher just proved that we CAN have mature discussions in this forum. In any other thread, it would have been hell already. They both state their opinions and give evidence. They deliberate not debate :D

i wouldn't called it attacked,far from it...more like you got a response.anyway this is someone else's thread on a different issue.

pro..u just ended a war that lastest very very long...i think?

you guys have no need to be arguing,i'm pretty new to making maps as well.i just don't see the point in people arguing over this...your annoyed cause he released a map you don't like and he's standing up for what he made.if you both take a step back it would simmer.

iv'e nothing else to say on the matter
Edited by ally on Dec 3, 2010 at 04:35 AM

if you don't care about rippers, then you wouldn't care about them getting help. you are lying to yourself

Wow. I leave for a night of sleep and come back to a 2 page flame war on ripping.

I love you

That picture is true on so many levels.
But I don't consider myself part of the "derp" crowd there

I don't think anybody here would

unfortunately for them, that's not always the case

Back when I joined there wasn't many, if any rippers. And content got made and people didn't always need to protect their maps.

No pain no gain - noobs should learn if they want something. Not given everthing which just gives the community another cheeky skilless kid.

Maybe the first couple posts started that way, but it was all just a discussion after that.

@ anyone who doesn't understand why I don't just ignore rippers

I do ignore them. I had been ignoring them for a few years now. I ignore the ones who know how to populate correctly because they have done their time here or seem to grasp concepts of gameplay even if they are new. I don't care if people go and take tags put them in a map so much as i care about people who just joined up, know nothing of what they are doing, can't even figure out a program or won't take the time to just search Google, and add new ripped weapons to an original map they ripped and do it just terribly.

Ripping has it's purposes too, I will say that. A lot of decent maps have resulted from rippers even I'll bet. Some people like Jesse will leave their maps just completely open too which is GREAT! It's just sad that even though most people have shown that they won't release much due to constant ripping and getting no gratitude in return, rippers will continue ripping even more vigorously when they DO release something and still no thanks is given. look at all the maps with no readme on this site. It takes 2 minutes to make a short readme. The least that could be said to show some gratitude is, "I would like to thank all the people whose content I used in this map".
Edited by eliteslasher on Dec 3, 2010 at 10:54 AM

Yes ripping can work for some people, most of you think that all sphinxbio knows is how to rip and populate a map, but ripping has actually forced him to learn, if you haven't noticed, his new maps are getting better, and more enjoyable, he's learned how to balance (almost) and several other things.

I will agree. But he has helped other people a bit too so he aught to be getting to know this stuff better anyway.

So... can we all just agree to disagree on this issue?
I'm bored!
Who wants to play some halo?

your map?