Sadly for once I have to agree with grunts. Lode Mann you are being an idiot about this. Every one is entitled to their own opinions. In the end it is only Gonzo's opinion that actually matters as far as this map goes. He is doing what he can to get the best of the CQB and the Sniper elements into the map (or so I gather) so for most people it won't matter. And Gonzo I am guessing that there most likely IS a way to have invisible barriers or kill barriers to lock players into certain areas on certain modes. Fairly sure anyway.

Skidrow you clearly did not read my post. Then again you're the same guy who said anyone could easily make something as good or better than lumoria, so there goes your credibility out the window.

If any more members wish to call me an idiot in public you might want to take it to xfire instead.

I would gladly discuss this via xfire. Just accept my invite I sent. As you removed me anyway.

And in regards to lumoria I was not referring to the actual BSP's. Only other things which I will only discuss on xfire.

Wow, this is one nearly-derailed topic.

Show support and let him finish already. Encourage him, arguing will only slow it down.

Sounds awesome, man! If I had any programming skill I'd be offering to help, but I know a bit of basic and some batch in Unix, that's about it.

But it sounds really interesting, and can't wait to play it :)

Neither was I. And sorry no, I don't talk to people on xfire who post heavily edited chatlogs.

It wasn't edited except to remove profane language used by you. However it would not have been changed at all if this forum allowed profanity...
But that I will PM you about...

Back to the topic.

Holy cow. Let me clarify:

TM: my statement that I am good at MP maps is, for the moment, overstated. I have not released any MP maps, so technically speaking, I have no real MP experience. However, on the other hand I have put a lot of thought into the design of my map. I have plenty of multiplayer experiences in all Halo games, so I have quite a pool to draw from. What you see is the best of my work (for the most part). What you read is mostly the best of my work. But you did not see what went on behind the scenes as I designed my map. That said, I apologize for appearing conceited or boasting. I am certainly good at making maps and thinking about the big picture, and when I release this, we shall see how much all my effort and work pays off.

Also, this is nonetheless a good MP map in my opinion. Competitive? Eh, maybe not so much. We'll see. Don't mistake my intentions and statements here as desire to make a map that is competitive. It's designed for the strategic mindset, hence its size and palettes. This map is of a different genre, but is still MP. If you don't like it, fine. But please quit complaining about gameplay and other things unless you have legit tips or suggestions (preferably expressed neutrally), because to me, it just looks like you're trying to express your dislike rather than convey methods of improvement.

Everyone else: thanks for sticking up for me. All of you put up good arguments. I'm sure there is questionable logic and reasoning to be found in all of them, but they nonetheless made a point.

Let me once again clarify: I am confident in my abilities to produce quality MP maps. Using Requiem as an example, I not only design something pretty and amazing to look at, but also tailor it to have a bit of a competitive edge (not so much as stock maps) and provide strategic options to players. I also consider things like camping, noobing, and other styles that would adversely effect maps. All this is rolled into a map I hope will be well-received by the community. Does this mean I am and/or will be good at making MP maps? No. Not until Requiem is released and I get positive feedback (if I do). Only time will tell. Do not mistake this as boasting. It's more like a quality assurance guarantee that can only be verified once you actually have access to the product.

Hopefully this clarifies all the warring that is currently taking over my thread? If not, do tell me.

Gonzo, I wish you the best of luck with the rest of the development of Requiem and your future products and apologise for unintentially having caused a derail of your thread.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

These kind of posts have NO place here!
Keep your nonsense for yourself kid!
Modifying xfire convos just shows what you're capable of, but don't worry we all know how disreputable you are.

I'm assuming you will make a brainless reply, but just use PM.

At CAG Gonzo:

As far as all of the random arguments are concerned; if i were you, i'd take them as a very large complement seeing as you now have so much attention being paid to this map. That being said, i hope you continue pushing forward on this project.

As for the game play issues and "noobery tactics"... i believe i can help you out in this particular department seeing as thus far, i have been called "noob" in just about every single mp map i've ever played in at one time or another. I'll be honest here; my weapons of choice are usually the heavies (pistol, rockets[when im out of ammo or the enemy is simply really annoying me], sniper [if i get bored], and fuelrod [only when dealing with someone trying to make a Spartan pancake with a warthog]). That being said, i usually keep to close quarters combat so hallway camping will be tested. I also (on larger maps like this) love a good vehicle fight (i was the one who discovered extinctions pelicans' invulnerability angle, as well as the one that pisses off everyone in blood gulch with my bulletproof tank gag). So needless to say; your map will be tested from all aspects even down to the grenades and viability of using the hills as AA placements. You will be receiving a lot of feedback from me.

I do have some questions about starting equipment: Most standard game types start players with the AR and a pistol; is there any chance of starting off with a modified AR with a secondary fire of a flashbang (using the rocket design from hugess?)? and will the molotov grenades be involved in any part of this map? (i do love the idea of setting a team at close proximity on fire XD)

thats it for now and i look forward to your reply.

I am going to assume here that this little "discussion" has been settled and the thread will return to the topic at hand: Requiem - Extinction on Steroids.

Molotov grenades? Never heard of them, or a lot of the glitches/tricks/whatevers you just mentioned. To be honest, it's been months since I've been on Halo 1 servers. But we'll keep in contact as testing approaches. I really need to get this stupid thing through tool...technology hates me, though.

Dennis: I would assume so, myself.

The molotov grenades was introduced in the later halo games but several versions of it have since appeared in maps here on the the site. (none of which i am too fond of) As for tool and technology; think of it as a "special child" it is very good for one particular thing but will fight you till no ends on anything else. XD

PS- its also been a while for me; work and friends have stepped in as well as a few side projects very much halo related but i assure you, my skills are not rusty and my testing methods are still the same.

Are you referring to the Brute incendiary grenades?

Edit: I GOT IT THROUGH TOOL! Except for the fact that I have no portals and two shader tags failed to load. But there are NO more geometry errors! This means testing could potentially begin within a month! Ah excitement!
Edited by CAG Gonzo on Sep 23, 2011 at 03:39 PM

Not settled but moved to PM's so therefore assuming he doesn't reply on this thread it is more or less dropped. Might as well delete them (the messages that are off topic) for all I care. I have them documented anyway. Just clearing that up.

tl;dr it's settled.

Anyway, to the important stuffs:



I think he does mean the brute firebombs. Those are fun.

Also VERY VERY glad to hear that you got it through tool finally. Shaders aren't hard to fix.
Good luck mate.

One of my bitmaps became corrupt. Not sure how that happened, but I fixed it. All I have left it seems is the construction of portals, which I have never attempted before. I need to find a good tutorial first, as the HEK guide is disappointingly bare.

Someone linked me to this the other day, oh yea , it was rambo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SqygQGcPgU

It only helps a bit. It doesn't cover errors, which it seems everyone ends up getting.

Let it be known that the map has no geometry errors and only a few coplanar warnings. Until I can figure out what to do for portalling, I'll be cleaning the map up: fixing mapping errors, aligning vertices for better smoothing, doing once overs around the bases, etc. I also need to get the water, bridge arms, and wall in, but I'll figure that out later.

Out of curiosity; will you be employing the multi-weather triggers into this map (as seen in some of the RPG maps [night, day, rain, etc?]) if so that would be awesome. If the idea of just changing weather conditions doesn't thrill you like adding fog and rain to uber obscure vision then might i toss out there the option of a meteor shower? Timed of course or only implemented on certain game types? this would further eliminate the possibility of snipers camping in the open terrain and force players to move their fights indoors; provided that these "meteors" have impact damage that could either flip vehicles (launching players from them) or simply kill any player outside struck by one. I'm not sure how this sort of thing might be implemented so i'd leave that to the more "experienced" mappers haunting this thread.

On another note aimed at CAG Gonzo, specifically; i have a few map files in my possession from an old project with a few features you may find very useful if not just very entertaining. (IE- a wraith that shoots pinball mortars, a flashlight based "jet pack" as well as a few other modded items). If you are interested let me know via PM.
Edited by Switchblade on Sep 23, 2011 at 09:13 PM

Well, I guess I shouldn't procrastinate anymore on my giant suggestions post then.


So, Gonzo, I noticed that you were making this a few months ago, but I haven't really posted until now, save for the one about the phantom a while ago. It's nice to see a big map that actually has some thought being put into it in the development process. I don't really have any experience in modding, but I want to help you out somehow, so here's a long list of game play hints taken from other maps that you can hopefully learn from, both good and bad. If a lot of this just seems like me complaining about big maps, well, that's probably true, but trust me in that I really do intend to help you out here. :D

First off, when you're placing your flag spawns...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112691571-4.jpg
PLEASE put them in a flat surface.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112691574-4.jpg
Seriously. Having this happen sucks.

Second, please please please don't make any spawn areas like this.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689539-4.jpg
There is no cover, the weapons scattered around the Spirit are useless on a map as big as this, and it's a long walk back over to the Seraphs/teleporters if somebody took the ghost. Spawn points should allow you to get into the action- In this case, the Seraphs or the sniper points. (The Phantoms as you've mentioned, and arguably the Scarab, are useless.)

Third, don't leave in any half-done features like this one.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689551-4.jpg
This is the teleporter under the beam-emitter by the Spirit in the last screenshot. Going through this leads you through here for some reason...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689555-4.jpg
(Over a large hole you can easily fall down into and die, seemingly for no other reason than to have the structure inside the beam emitter)
Into another teleporter, onto...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689559-4.jpg
...This, where you're basically trapped. The only weapons up there are two completely useless Beam Rifles, and here's no easy way to get down other than just jumping.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689566-4.jpg
And there's not a lot down there. The closest thing to wherever you land is the teleporter to the also-useless anti-air gun, (Only one of which actually has a ground teleporter for some reason) and other than that you're basically screwed unless you can convince somebody to pick you up. And even if you do decide to walk over to the platform, you're hoofing it over open ground the whole way, a prime target for anyone who happens to notice you.

So basically, this is the kind of half-done feature you should try to avoid, if for no other reason than it's a waste of polys and a distraction. Now, if there was some extra ammo for at least one of the sniper rifles and there was something to prevent you from falling off while moving around, especially while scoped, this might be worth using, but as it is, it's totally useless.

Another thing, if you're going to make a teleporter network like the one on Extinction...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689611-4.jpg
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689612-4.jpg
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689615-4.jpg
For the love of god, label them. Seriously, I've been playing Extinction for years, and I still haven't gotten the hang of which ones go where. The fact that they seem to be in no logical order only makes things worse.

Speaking of teleporters...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112692572-4.jpg
Note how close to most of the spawn points these teleporters are. This is one of the things Ender really did right. You can oftentimes just pop into either the armory or the sniper spot right out of the spawn if you don't feel like taking one of the aircraft in the hangar right away.

Although, these are not all of the teleporters...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689577-4.jpg
This one is all the way on the other end of the hangar, under the closer Longsword, near none of the spawn points. For seemingly no reason. Now considering that this leads to the overbuffed Scorpions and the Mythos this may ultimately be a good thing, but it still leaves many people either completely unaware of its existence or thinking that going there is simply not worth it when the more thrilling option of taking one of the aircraft and either dogfighting or just flying down to the boom. Either way, it's ultimately a waste of data where it is.

Still on teleporters...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689583-4.jpg
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112689581-4.jpg
These are more examples of pointless rooms. The only thing in the second one is a single, ordinary rocket launcher, and an opportunity to glitch out of the room, and there is literally nothing in the first one. These are perfect examples of pointless rooms that only serve to delay people from doing what they want, i.e sniping, and thus things to avoid.

Tl;dr, keep your spawns close to all your teleporters and vehicles, and all your vehicles and teleporters close to your spawns. Nobody likes walking any more than they have to.


Keep looking for places for people to snipe like this. On Downflow, there's a large Covenant Super Carrier hovering ominously above the map, and entirely below the height ceiling. A buddy of mine consistently gets good ratios camping on it, so you may want to watch out for spots like this.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/118099114-4.jpg

Please, if you're going to include things like Longswords as they are on most maps, add a hangar or something for both teams that protects the player/vehicle spawns. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of this...
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/118107217-4.jpg
Aside from that, Seraphs and Phantoms just lying out in the open just looks strange, not
to mention the Scarab.

Miscellaneous suggestions/thoughts:

You are inevitably going to get stuck out in the middle of the open, flat terrain at some point. Maybe you press E when you mean to press W in your jet, I don't know. The point is, it's going to happen. I gather that this is what the infamous C4 in Coldsnap was meant to resolve, but as we all know it also works as a handy griefing/cheating tool. I figure there must be a way to facilitate easy self-initiated spawn return without providing every griefer out there with a tool. Maybe see if this can be made into a default weapon or set flashlight to kill the player or something.
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/franken-kal-96/Random/backwardsgun.jpg
The point is, is you can solve this problem, your map is sure to skyrocket in popularity.

Another problem with such large maps as this is that it takes forever to get anywhere on foot. Maybe if the default walking speed were increased, this would be made easier. After all, we are (Presumably) playing as Spartans, and we all know how fast they can be...

Downflow is an awesome big map and you should totally check it out.
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=2052

Well, that's it, good luck Gonzo. We're all really hoping you get this map finished.
Edited by Kal on Sep 24, 2011 at 03:03 AM

Um...what 'e said.

PLEEEESE make the covenant side as strong as the UNSC side. This may have been discussed to death already, but it always annoys me how the covenant are suppsoed to be stronger, yet, they set up their camp in the open, put their weps wherever they decide to go to the loo, and place their aircraft out. Its practically a massive, fluro-yellow neon sign at midnight, saying "HYA FELLOWS! WANNA COME OVER AND OWN US? WANT SOME SUGAR WITH THAT TEABAGGING MIX U GOT?"

Plus...

Are you going put in an option for a 'good old fashioned ground assault?' People always underestimate how useful the warthogs can be on extinction. Seriously, 8/10 times on extinction I lead a warthog assault, nobody really notices me. They look at the sky. Strange, seeming how nobody really does in real life when they're looking up. Like, people look in the sky, but they never look directly 'up.' Strange.

May I point out that the anti air turrets on extinction are actually very useful as they can take down enemy flying vehicles with ease. Only snipers can take out a skilled turret user. Also, there actually are two teleporters to them.
And the corridors leading to the sniper point on the ship are actually very well done as it prevents snipers from sniping, dying, then just suddenly appearing on the snipe spot again a second later. I've found that enemies have taken some very good time by killing me. They could get a jet in and take the flag before I returned.

Other than that, good spotting Kal.
Edited by Jaz on Sep 24, 2011 at 05:49 AM

Also the bridge room in the Genocide is how you get on top of the ship. You go through a couple rooms and get to the top. And the covie tele's ARE labeled. Look at the floor. They have arrows.

Switchbalde: nope. The weather will be consistent.

Kal:

Flag spawns will be inside the respective bases, so they will only be accessible by foot.

All spawns will be near structures, and most will be near vehicles. You will see 'useless' crash sites like that, but they exist to provide weapons and vehicles to the unfortunate who ditch their aircraft or are otherwise in the middle of nowhere.

All teleporters will be intelligently linked, and most (if not all) will be two way. I'll do my best to make labels for them, but I'll need to make custom ones for the majority of them. The idea of my teleporter network is to provide an alternate route for those who can't/don't want to take to the skies or use a Hog. They allow access to both bases, the minimap, and addendums, though you do have to travel to get to each node.

On teleporters, there are two in red base, two in blue base, two on each side of the minimap, one in red's addendum, four in blue's (I haven't finalized this, however), so there is easy access from a variety of locations. However, most of what players will need/want is accessible without using the teleporters (i.e. weapons and vehicles).

I'm taking great care to restrict camping grounds. Inevitably there will be some, but hopefully they won't be as immune as your example. This is also why I'm taking a lot away from the snipers as compared to Extinction.

Longswords and Scarabs are being nerfed. There will be no nuke; instead, skilled pilots will be able to release a volley of dumb bombs on their enemies. The main cannon, which is currently rockets, will instead be switched to large caliber guns. I'm thinking a pair of 105's will do nicely, firing alternately (if I can, as with the Ghost in Halo 2 and up) at about 2 rounds per second. The force will be minimal, but damage will be fairly high.

Scarabs will be a bit faster, their weapon will be more balanced, and the secondary weapon will be enhanced.

Your idea for an evac script is intriguing, but I fear it would see the most action when someone is about to die, say a Longsword is heading for them, not because they're stuck in the open. My solution? Vehicle depots (the crash sites mentioned earlier). If you aren't near one, well, tough bananas. I want to put in sufficient vehicle spawns, but I'm not about to place them every 100 meters.

All in all, I'm putting a lot into gameplay predictions to try and alleviate stress. Ultimately, however, the testing phases will perfect it.

Will you be adding a way to get on to a scarab once it's moved away from it's main depot?

is this map even being made or is this just a big idea thread

Check the first page broski.

L2read mate.

Going 1.5 times faster'd be annoying in some areas though so it should be assigned to Q.

Speed scripts for sprinting are only feasable in SP, due to the fact that in MP, when one person sprinted, they all would, thanks to the net code and the inability to find out which player exactly requested the sprint.

SAPP allows you to give speed to one specific player. And some zombie servers automatically give speed to a specific team.

Just make it 1.5 all around.

Tis gunna be made.

I'm guessing it's probably too late to make a suggestion related to map design, more specifically an addition that would, in my opinion, add slightly to the gameplay and spice up a part of the map that has potential for awesomeness.

Edit: Well, not only is it too late, but after looking at your screenshots from a while back for the first time in a couple months, it actually doesn't look very possible anyway without some major changes. Forget it.

Edited by nick347b on Sep 25, 2011 at 04:25 PM