I definitely remember a hog in either coldsnap or extinction that went much faster than the other hogs, I was on a straight section of the map and passed another hog that was going flat out.

Edit: I think it was the "lid" hog on coldsnap and the gauss on extinction
Edited by Commando N on May 1, 2011 at 09:17 AM

Maybe on extinction, but I know for sure that all the hogs on CS go the same speed.

k, I guess I had just forgotten how fast they went on coldsnap, havent played on it for a short while now
Edited by Commando N on May 2, 2011 at 06:34 AM

I'm not including 'useless' vehicles such as the Lidded Hog. I say 'useless' because it obviously has purpose and warrants inclusion, but it has no defenses other than the occupants, so for that reason, it is being excluded from the vehicle list.

As promised (albeit belayed), here are pictures. I've already finished blue's expansion; it just needs a teleporter hub as an alternate entrance/exit. I'll start on red's expansion tonight, as I cannot, for the life of me, come up with anything else to put into blue's addendum. I was considering shrinking it, but I like the size. It adds mystery to the design.

If anyone has any suggestions, any at all, please don't hesitate in posting them. I really need that stinking addendum completed. The expansion will be easy, considering all I do is remap a few faces after optimizing a snippet of Bungie's mesh. Then I merge it into the base. Doesn't take that long.

Album:
http://img703.imageshack.us/g/blueaddendum50.jpg/

Picture 1:


The expansion. Nothing more than the undersides and surrounding hallways and exterior units form the final beam tower of a30. All I did was optimize, delete a few 'unnecessary' polys, and remap. I also changed some textures: I feel that the insides of the hallways should not use exterior bitmaps, i.e. bitmaps that appear to be weathered. That said, I changed them to reflect the interior 'versions' of the bitmap, for the most part.

Also, I deleted the pipes. They were high poly, and kind of pointless in my opinion. I made up for the newly created exposure by moving the structures in closer. Also, there will be scenery items surrounding the area.
Picture 2:


As previously mentioned, the expansion is nothing more than what Bungie made, except for the alternate hallway, which has been invaded by earth. As the beam tower itself is partially buried, I felt it only appropriate to flood the hallway with dirt. It adds some mystery, and saves about 2000 polys or so by not having to include alternate hallways and exterior structures. The flag will spawn on the side closest to the serviceable hallway (i.e. the one not flooded with dirt), while a teleporter hub will be in the back somewhere (still working on that), and that will lead to the surface.

Picture 3:


Closeup of the flooded hallway. Could be better, but I didn't want to put a lot of polys into it. I have a dilemma where a player could potentially hide on the other side of the partially covered doorway, with, say the Oddball, so I was considering either adding an invisible wall there, or stuff some scenery object in.

Picture 4:


What work I have completed on the addendum is evident here. All I did was take two sections of hallway from b40, and combine them in an interesting way, then tossed in some of my own work. There's a destroyed and dented door that is partially open, exposing a section of hallway (that will have no lights, but will contain fire and/or sparks). That's just there for, you guessed it, mystery. The hallway meets up with the addendum in a cute room area, that cuts through the thicker wall to overlook the vast interior.

Picture 5:


Closeup of the hallways. It's simple, yet complex enough to not be mundane, I think. I added in some Sentinel tubes to give a more productive and involved feel to the area.

Picture 6:


Here's a shot of the view from the other side. You can see the floor drops off. Just some more unnecessary but cool detail. You should also be able to make out the damaged door, and the fact that the hallway leads to nothing.

Picture 7 (huh, look at that):


The aforementioned room. It's nothing special at the moment, and will probably be nothing more than what you see now, aside form some minor tweaks. Obviously the mapping is awful, so don't fret about it. I just wanted the mapping of the struts to be visible. To the right, you can see some walls. What you can't see is the opening, exposing this room to the vast interior of the rest of the addendum.

Oh, this might clarify the whole room/opening deal:


Questions or suggestions? Get posting.

Looks beautiful. Can't wait to see a full ingame render. Keep up the great work!

Could you show a drawing of the map? I'm a bit confused on the layout it seems like it keeps getting bigger and bigger.

As far as the "details" are concerned when it comes to modelling i'd suggest sticking to what i liked best about your work (added fog, sparks, lense flares from machinery, fire,etc.). Can't finish a hallway or need players to stay away; add flashing lights and debris(objects).

For the blue base(covie?) its mainly down to the after touches:plasma burnt walls(textures), weapons strewn about(idk what those would be applied with), blood(textures), and my favorite a corpse or two (scenery and or objects). Other than that i'd say it looks good.

For red base(human?) same as what was said for the covie base (corpses, bad lighting, fires, etc) but as far as architecture is concerned i'd say concentrate on aspects from "the library" particulary the elevator around the index(its snazzy looking and makes a great flag placement if its just hovering; and everybody knows, humans love fancy and important looking things). For the hallways i'd say something along the lines of the ones found outside of the containment areas in "the flood"(once again they look important and fancy but also make for very intense firefight areas).

Linking hallways if any; broken blast doors every couple of meters (something along the lines of a shrunken version of the hallway leading to the "control room"; lots of open space to prevent camping and all the room you could want to place fallen and burning debris or bad lighting for a flashlight-based battle)

Thats about it for now; as i said, most of it is in the after touches (like burning hogs from CMT's revamp of the POA) and random bad lighting (for some reason campers tend not to stick around in dark places for very long ;D). oh, one other thing; when you start placing teleporters could you please not make all of them so organized and obvious(its always fun when you are going after the enemy with a team mate and either him or you suddenly disappear after going to hide behind some fallen debris. I know these arent exactly modelling related but some things just need that anti-noob adjustment like Susan Boyle needs a surgical makeover.

I think you mean flat tyre there.
I guess the lid hog gives better sniper protection, too bad the snipers in the retard maps are one hit kills anyway.

I rofl'd.

As far as the "details" are concerned when it comes to modelling i'd suggest sticking to what i liked best about your work (added fog, sparks, lense flares from machinery, fire,etc.). Can't finish a hallway or need players to stay away; add flashing lights and debris(objects).

Noted. However, it is not that easy. Players can still circumvent fires and sparks. Scenery is a viable option, and I will use it as needed, but it can only work so well, in so many areas. For this last addendum, I'm simply going to put some more design into this, and can rely on scenery items to finish the job. Given the more open design of this addendum, sparks and fires are not a complete solution.

For the blue base(covie?) its mainly down to the after touches:plasma burnt walls(textures), weapons strewn about(idk what those would be applied with), blood(textures), and my favorite a corpse or two (scenery and or objects). Other than that i'd say it looks good.

I'm looking at tossing in some blood and burn decals, possibly a corpse or two. You can expect weapons to be strewn about thoughtfully.

For red base(human?) same as what was said for the covie base (corpses, bad lighting, fires, etc) but as far as architecture is concerned i'd say concentrate on aspects from "the library" particulary the elevator around the index(its snazzy looking and makes a great flag placement if its just hovering; and everybody knows, humans love fancy and important looking things). For the hallways i'd say something along the lines of the ones found outside of the containment areas in "the flood"(once again they look important and fancy but also make for very intense firefight areas).

Red's addendum incorporates some elements from c20, and now that I have plans to overhaul it, I see no reason why it couldn't include more elements from c20. I was looking at a section of hallway, with surrounding arch and truss detail, to include in the addendum, but I removed it. I thought what I had was enough, but now it looks surprisingly devoid of detail.

As much as I'd love to put in large, inaccessible places for the pure purpose of adding mystery and more to the grand design, I'm over my limit right now: I'm at ~63000 faces, not including the ~8000 currently in blue's addendum, to say nothing of the polys that will be added once I overhaul red's addendum. I'm trying my best to keep the detail concise and low poly, but it ain't working so well. That said, the elevator is not an option. A destroyed, ground level version (such as that seen in Halo 2) would be cool, but again, that's high poly, and requires an original place for said elevator to have been installed (i.e. a main shaft, from which it was shot).

Linking hallways if any; broken blast doors every couple of meters (something along the lines of a shrunken version of the hallway leading to the "control room"; lots of open space to prevent camping and all the room you could want to place fallen and burning debris or bad lighting for a flashlight-based battle)

Not happening. I personally disagree with forcing bad lighting on the player in such an instance, even though the idea of debris and other signs of a struggle is an exciting concept. I do have some destroyed scenes, but not a lot. Considering the wear and tear endured by Forerunner structures in the game (unrealistic yes, but I must abide by their precedent), there shouldn't be too many destroyed visuals. But hey, who doesn't love a battered door, cracked ajar, yet not wide enough to pass through?

Thats about it for now; as i said, most of it is in the after touches (like burning hogs from CMT's revamp of the POA) and random bad lighting (for some reason campers tend not to stick around in dark places for very long ;D). oh, one other thing; when you start placing teleporters could you please not make all of them so organized and obvious(its always fun when you are going after the enemy with a team mate and either him or you suddenly disappear after going to hide behind some fallen debris. I know these arent exactly modelling related but some things just need that anti-noob adjustment like Susan Boyle needs a surgical makeover. Hark! Let the truth be heard.

Teleporters were previously discussed. Some players wanted them randomized as well. I'm sorry to disappoint in this regard, but that's not going to happen. There will be a coherent and logical organization to the network, and I have already begun preparations for said network. Expect a schematic denoting the alpha layout of the teleporters within the next few weeks.

These 'after touches' you speak of will be incorporated. Scenery placement will be handled with great care to consistency, balance, cover, and plot incorporation.


All that said, I have a major design decision facing me: I feel that blue's addendum, though nicely sized as is, is currently too large for me to adequately design AND keep the poly count low. So, I have made three versions of the initial layout: one is as I have posted in pictures above. 4 a30 'ribs' spanning the length of the interior. The other versions simply have less ribs. One has 3, the other 2.

What I need from you is a vote for which version I should incorporate, and a reason why. I feel the 4X2 (4 ribs) is nice, but a challenge for me to fill. The 3X2 isn't bad, but I feel it's too short, and I don't like the fact that the light bridge unit is no longer centered. The 2X2 fixes the centering issue, but at the expense of the size: it now feels a little too cramped, and yet large enough to leave me pleased. I'm at standstill here. So, take a look below, and tell me what you think:

Album:
http://img98.imageshack.us/g/blueaddendum2x2.jpg/

4X2:


3X2:


2X2:


Also, if you want to start tossing ideas for red's overhaul, go for it. Please comment regarding those two subjects (blue addendum's size, and red addendum's overhaul) FIRST, then if you have other suggestions/questions/stuff, speak it afterwards.

I like the 2x2, it just seems more befitting of a small, yet large, interior structure. The 3x2 definitely doesn't suit the bill, and the 4x2 even less so.

I'm definitely leaning toward the two post model; as you said, forerunner designs were functional and pruposely built the way they were(2 post, structural usually used around doorways or exposed in this case by a lack of a wall. 4 posts or more, ceiling reinforcement usually applied to give a bunker-like feel as seen in the hallways leading to the control room on halo.)

Also, i'm not sure if you had this in mind already; textures and lighting make the scene; if you have a large open area or a lot of flat walls, you can add textures and lighting in or around them to make them appear 3d or functional. A good example of this are the "windows" in the library or the lights in general in the control room(it fills empty space and makes things look awesome)

I agree, the 2x2 looks the best, and if it reduces poly count, even better.

As for the blue base, the pics are absolutely stunning. Its coming along great, Gonzo.

Please DEFER from making offensive comments is the sentence you were aiming for. Unfortunately, it makes no sense whatsoever in this context, nor does it contribute anything to this forum thread. This syllogism ends with you ceasing all useless commenting immediately.

2X2 sounds like the winner. I'll take more votes, but will start work on the 2X2. Given the size, finishing it should go a lot quicker. Got any ideas for red's overhaul?

Maybe give them a Forerunner refinery....thing?

Troll fail. Haha. Such a simpleton, that character is. Let this be a lesson, kids. If you turn into a conformist, brown-nosing teen (perhaps person), you'll fall behind in academics, which will destroy your grammatical and spelling skills, then end up like this moron, who can't even troll the right way. That's a new low.

In your case, it's the exact same thing, AC. lol.

*post deleted by admin for rules violation
READ THE RULES:
http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm%3Fpage=topic&topicID=2979

Bypassed profanity filter
Edited by Dennis on May 6, 2011 at 02:41 PM

Actually, I find your attempts to anger me amusing. What angers me is that people like you exist, because it gives the rest of us human beings, those who actually have brains, intelligence, AND choose to put them to good use). So, by all means, continue to belittle yourselves further. You're only undermining your own efforts, and you will be administered.

lol

human-side overhaul... I like the idea of the "generater rooms" for the halo array; they look fancy and whatnot but have issues in the irritatingly cramped and annoying object placement department. Really, i'd say take the center of the generater room and build outwards from there(use it as a centerpiece or pillars?)

Generators aren't a bad idea. I'll research that.

So how is Extinction On Steroids going? Can't wait to play it! It looks amazing so far as what I have read.

Nathan
Edited by nathanallan on May 7, 2011 at 03:46 AM

This map is going to be the best map ever created. EVER.

cant wait.

Has anyone suggested odst pods yet?

How would those even be used in this map? And don't tell me via hovering ship, because Gonzo's already running low on polies, and doesn't want a high-poly item like a ship in his map.

As far as vehicle use goes, let Gonzo decide.

I know, right?

I doubt he has hit 40k yet.

I use 50k as an absolute limit. Rarely going higher.

You doubt I've hit 40K? I hit that months ago. I'm around 70K as it is, which worries me. I seriously need to cut back. I may have to cancel the addendums. Or I may look at removing a portion of the secondary wall. Either way, I am WAY over the 50K limit. I feel that, overall, it may run fine in-game, as most of the polys are clustered around the addendums and bases, and I'll be portalling the map thoroughly. Nevertheless, I would like to reduce the amount of polys substantially.

oohhh ok. I thought you had a lot less.... You know using smoothing group's right can make the terrain look a lot smoother with a lot less polys. Could probably also do that with the covenant cruiser.

How many tries? Or are you measuring in triangles?

I might do some testing later and see just how many poly's a map can be before it will crash Blam engine.

Any guess's?

I am aware of smoothing groups and their effects and properties (for the most part). I haven't finalized the smoothing, but even when I do, it isn't going to save me much polys. The actual terrain (i.e. everything not including structures, such as bases, addendums, or the walls) is around 23K, which is about the same as Infinity.

Tries? Not sure what you mean there. I have gmax, keep in mind. Numbers are based off of faces/triangles.

If you can do testing, then that would be great. I'd love to get a cap number now, because I may not even have room to put in blue's addendum, given what I have now. Either that, or I'll delete the base expansions, although I really don't want to.

Damn, that's alot of poly's. If you really need to cut back, instead of throwing away the addendums or base expansions, maybe you could try making the addendums smaller and/or less detailed, since they're secondary to the bases but still awesome enough to keep.

maybe if you had of had the sence to get your map ingame at different stages of adding more parts then you wouldn't have to consider removing parts or having the concern of not being able to add extras.


learning the hard way is the worst way to go.


looks like you'll get to a point where your gonna lose parts of your map.because you didn't plan ahead.


shame.

Your suggestion, while credible and intelligent in design, cannot be inferred as a template to which mapmakers should conform, especially first-timers. While I am not new to the world of 3D modeling, I am relatively new (if you consider familiarity with Halo's engine for ~3 years as new) to actually producing maps. That said, in retrospect, I agree with your suggestion, but I find it unrealistic that it is a 'shame' to have chosen a different design process, and don't you dare say I didn't plan ahead. You don't even know how much work I put into this before I even starting modeling it.

Learning the hard way is the worst way to go simply because it sucks. But at the same time, learning the hard way opens up a lot more scenarios in some cases, and definitely results in a much stronger net experience.

Also, before you go trying to correct others' work and decisions like you're an expert (don't know if you are or not), perhaps you should try at least getting your spelling right.

yeah sure i'll use spellcheck,for your thread especially :)

if you had of planed ahead of every part your map would have then why are you running out of the poly(short for polygon) limit????? :)