Okay -to be honest, I'm glad you're looking this much into realism for the jet's design.
Definitely something Bungie and 343 should've considered when they're making their vehicles...

Anywho, I didn't realize that the extensions below the side engine intake were the gatling guns..
I thought THOSE were the missiles... (set up kinda like the LAU Mk 40 missiles like below)


(Then again, I don't have Halo 4, so who am I to speak? lol)

I guess the engine layout and overall design kinda makes the Broadsword impractical for
atmospheric dogfights... but if you want to be conservative and stick to Halo canon material,
I think this is better than the Sabre and Sparrowhawk (the only aircraft that can come close
to being alternatives).

A 26th-century version of an F-18? This is gonna be really interesting...
CE is definitely overdue for a custom, sexy aircraft. I'll definitely be looking forward to what you have in store.

All this talk makes me really want to resurrect the aircraft. I know I was able to load a backup of the MAX file I had made prior to the HDD failure, but I don't know if I still have it. Even if I didn't, with my significantly improved modeling skills (compared with my skills when I first designed it) should allow me to do better in less time. It's the animating that'll screw me over, if anything. And getting a good texture.

Sounds promising! -Texturing and animating are complete frontiers for me so I won't be
able to help, personally, but I'm pretty sure other guys here like M16-Assault would be
happy to help? Good luck!

PS: Apparently, there's a deleted aircraft in Halo 3: ODST that not even the Halo Wiki
knows about... This jet right here. Any chance this could also help in your design?
http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=5&q=vtol&offset=408#/d4otv6q

I'm pretty sure that design is up there somewhere. And I feel it was recycled into this:

http://www.halopedia.org/Unidentified_civilian_transport_craft

The design bears a resemblance to the SR-71. It's cool, but I don't need design ideas at this point. I need time and for this project (Requiem) to be complete. Then I'll worry about this.

Interesting... Alright, thanks for the correction (?).

I thought this was supposed to be a part of Requiem...? But alrighty then.

I do have a halo 3 pelican that works. based off the n-pelican tag, but halo 3 model. Idk if you'd want to use it, but just throwing it out there.

Updates? How about yes! I've gone with my plan of moving red addendum beneath (ish) the new death island mixed with a beam emitter structure. There will not be a direct connection from within the base as planned, because I'd have to mess around with terrain too much, plus design a widely sexy interior hooking it all together. However, the vehicle tunnel will lie at the end of the "road" in front of the structure as planned. A new idea I went with was to extend the beam's shaft down further, connecting it up with the interior of red addendum. This brought about a fun new addition that replaced the huge and empty room connecting the main part of the addendum to the more personnel friendly side. See below.


The new room, while actually a bit bigger than the last, is better designed. The ceiling is lower to take away from that dwarfing feeling originally present. The personnel friendly side now parallels the area. A portion of the hallway was partially mirrored to serve as a large access point. The beam shaft is evident and is the focal piece of the room.



A view of the new room from the portion that connects to the addendum proper. Obviously the physical connection is incomplete. This view highlights the various design elements at play and hopefully lends a sense of scale to the room.



Here you can see the ceiling work. Rather than a bland opening for the shaft, it instead protrudes out a bit, meshing beautifully with the arches. The protrusion runs the length of the ceiling, also meshing with the other four arches.



Here you can see the new window into the large addendum space. The arches wrap around nicely to meet up with the original window framework. Portions of the exterior were moved to accommodate the new room and preserve symmetry.


As mentioned above, the vehicle tunnel will connect to the road. The tunnel right now is basic, as I removed most of the turns while playing around with the position. Once completed, I'm planning to restore some of the curves to prevent too much line of sight while traveling. The entire addendum isn't too far below the structure above it.

TODO: I have no idea what to do with the other end of the personnel side of the addendum. Right now it's floating around in space. I might try and connect another entrance somewhere. If I don't then the entire area is nothing more than a fancy dead-end (albeit with a teleporter or two).

Oh, and take a look at these:





I CANNOT take credit for the basic airframe design. I found both models in a pack of four on turbosquid.com. I don't know if it's still up or not. They were made in GMax but I got them into max (when I had my Max 8 trial many a year ago) and did some work. All the talk about them made me miss them, so I hunted them down and was pleased to find them both further along than I had expected.

The CAS (the first aircraft) has a chin-mounted Gatling gun, landing gear, canopy, two boom-mounted pylins for rocket pods (not shown) and will have four wing hardpoints for two bombs and two missiles. It's designed to be anti-ground more than anti-air.

The second aircraft (dubbed the Nebula) is designed to be more of an F-22 type platform (not in sexiness or pure drool-inducing awesomeness) but in role: air superiority with capabilities for ground engagements. It has four high-power belly-mounted cannons, two fuselage mounting points for bombs (pictured) and two wing hardpoints for a two-rack of anti-air missiles (sourced from the F-18 thingy).

The models still need a lot of work. Smoothing, optimizing (the landing gear on the CAS has over a thousand polys; when I made them I didn't have a concept of poly limits in CE. I just thought people were lazy. That's how old these are haha), they both need animating and marker-ized, plus they need unwrapped and bitmaps need designed. But I did process them into basic tags (including the PLAAR [Pod-Launched Anti_armor Rockets] and bomb [which is kinda like a JDAM]) so I do have a good start. If I wasn't invested in my map I'd be working on these.

The Nebula has separate control surfaces that I'd like to animate based on movement (like the Pelican; ailerons and canards move with respect to roll; elevators with pitch; rudders with yaw; flaps with speed [down when slowed/stopped, up when moving]). Both aircraft will have landing gear and bays which will need animating, as well as the canopies. Oh, and their is virtually no cockpit to these things so I need to do that. So a decent amount of modeling work.

I like jet #2

everything looks great, how is the polygon count?

also, can we get an overview?

holy dooly, someone's been busy, happy to see these updates, was beginning to think this duck was dying, looks great! how about that epic bridge gonz?

Overview? What do you mean?

I've done no work on the bridge or minimap. I won't start there until I finish with red side at the least. I might design blue side first. One thing at a time. However, red side is nearing completion especially now that I've got a good place for the addendum in a relatively compact layout.

Your aircraft concept is doing a great job reminding me how unrealistic the Pelican's dimensions are...
Its size and smoothness is slightly concerning (might help if the main wings fold when the
pilot is not on board), but otherwise, it seems like a really great start to what Halo's been
overdue for years!
Great job, and keep it up! :D

EDIT: To confirm, is the CAS basically going to be the smaller, more realistic alternative
for the Longsword? Also, I like the start of the Nebula, but is it possible to make the bottom
more aerodynamic by hiding the four turrets on the bottom and making a smooth cover?

The internal structures... Instead of one mini-map, it's starting to feel more like the place is five
or six maps combined into one.. I hope it won't go to waste, like what happened to Precipice.
(That was a great map, too, if it weren't for its intimidating size)
Edited by renegade343 on Dec 7, 2012 at 01:09 AM

I removed all smoothing groups. This lets me easily identify obvious errors and bad alignment. When I near the end of the design phase I add the smoothing and determine where to go from there. For now, focus solely on the basic shape and concept.

I'd rather not worry about wing-folding. The aircraft are large (ish), yes, but then again most fighters are. Honestly, the Pelican is actually small for a cargo role platform and the fighters are average sized, not the other way around.

I will do my best to make all aircraft sleeker. Like I said, these designs are not mine. All I've done so far is mess around with alignment (the CAS's wings and elevators used to be bent down at the ends, for example) and haven't designed anything other than the hardpoints and the ordnance.

The map really is a bunch of smaller maps combined into one. I'm ok with that because it means there's a great deal of maneuvering options and paths to take, the RP possibilities are enhanced, and it will be easier to determine the location of yourself/others with a more compartmentalized design.

I like the concept of the jet, but it needs a lot of work to look good. Keep up the good work.

As much as I dislike to admit it, I don't like the jets very much. I'm not an expert if aeronautics, by any means, but the first one's twin boom layout has more in common with some WWII planes than it does with any modern jet fighter I can think of. The second one seems a bit more conventional, but all the armaments seem a bit tacked-on and disrupt the aerodynamics.

I'd suggest taking inspiration from either a more conventional modern design and adding elements that would help it fit in on a futuristic battlefield, or to go with somethig a bit more Halo-esque, taking inspiration from the F99 Wombat drone fighter, the Broadsword, the Shortsword, the Sabre, etc.

I wil do my best to make them more aerodynamic. I like the basic designs as they are, even though the CAS does indeed appear to draw influence from the P-38 and/or P-61. However, just because that particular design hasn't been seen since WWII doesn't necessarily mean it is outdated. Technically speaking, I doubt something like the CAS would be of any use other than as a civilian craft due to its small shape. There isn't much room for fuel or wiring or any other systems required for a combat-ready aircraft.

The Nebula certainly affords more internal space. I even considered adding in some bomb bays, but that means more animating and hassle, though if I did that, not only would it be cool, it would also remove the need for external hardpoints. The four cannons will probably be completely scrapped in favor of twin, fuselage-blended nose or wing root cannons.

When I am able to better focus on these two birds, I'll create a separate thread for them. For now, I just wanted you guys to see what I had planned.

Very nice, i love the red structure, that's exactly the look I want to see in halo ! :D The airfram looks pretty interesting ! I don't realy know why, but the red plox reminds me on a map, what I pretty apprecied a long time ago (precipice) :)

Man this looks great. Really excited to play it.

Some updates on the Nebula:





Thought I'd try my hand at it instead of the map. I literally spent HOURS just straightening out edges. I also discovered the model was rotated a few degrees on the z-axis, which made working with it incredibly difficult. I sliced it in half then manually realigned billions of vertices. But overall I am pleased with the product. I put in some basic smoothing to get a feel for a final state. The hardpoints are absent for now and the cannons have been moved into a rough position near the wing root.

Honestly the smoothing doesn't do justice to the shape; it's actually a lot better looking than what you see in the picture, which appears as a turd with wings. Speaking of which, I lengthened the wings and added more curves to the fuselage.

Why are the wings crooked on the ends?
I thought it would have to be aerodynamic.
Rest is looking good though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device

just as a heads up, you don't need the central vertical stabilizer

In a real aircraft, it really would do nothing for the plane,as you already have them mounted on the horizontal stabilizers

I'm no aero engineer, but I believe you are correct. However, not all aircraft with vertical stabilizers mounted on the horizontal stabilizers are lacking a central vertical stabilizer; take the OV-1 for example.

The wingtips are "crooked" for appearance (and because that's how they were when I downloaded the aircraft). I can't speak as to their aerodynamic performance gains, but I will say that the aircraft would look a little less impressive without them.

If you'd like advice on any alterations that might be needed to give it the appearance of a fully-functional jet fighter, I know a few people who know enough about the subject to offer some assistance. If you're just aiming for something that looks cool, however (And who would really notice if it wasn't entirely realistic, anyway?), I won't bother you by making continual references to realism, and will instead focus on the aesthetic aspect of it.
Edited by Echo77 on Dec 8, 2012 at 11:09 AM

This is Halo. Physics don't apply. ...Right?

I aim for realism, so by all means continue to provide tips in that department. Just realize that I may not follow that advice, either out of choice or necessity. While I do aim to create a sexy looking aircraft, it won't mean much if it looks like a rock. But then again, the Pelican doesn't exactly look aerodynamic by today's standards, does it?
Edited by CAG Gonzo on Dec 8, 2012 at 11:22 AM

yea but the pelican uses directed thrust, just like an av-8b harrier

or an f35 lightning II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9ISpriu6HEA#!
aerodynamics are irrelevant on the pelican as it will never go supersonic, but if the engines die you wont be flying for much longer.

on the case of the aeronautical properties of the jet you are making, i believe that the kink in the wings just before the winglets is doing more harm that good. and it is completely unnecessary to have a conventional tailplane and a canard configuation on the same airframe. having 3 vertical stabilisers will help with yaw control, but if you have control surfaces on the rear horizontal. the plane will probably fly at subsonic speeds as the size and shape of the canopy and the intakes will not allow it.(possibly if you are using a ramjet but not practical).when the wind flows over the back of a sharp object it builds up behind it creating a vacuum, causing drag.

although i must agree that besides the choice in cockpit it looks great so far.

full analysis

~source: 2 years of aerospace engineering

things to fix:

>3 vertical stabilizers--slows down the craft, the OV-1 is a prop plane

suggestion- remove central fin, or remove the side horizontal stabilizers

>move engines--the engines are blocking the airflow to the rear stabilizers, making them useless

suggestion- relocate air intakes to underneath the main wing

>2 horizontal stabilizers-- all it is doing is causing stress in the structure

suggestion- either remove rear stabilizer and move main wings back, or remove front stabilizer

>wrong nose design for the aircraft--the nose design is for a supersonic jet, you jet in-game will hopefully be considerably slower

suggestion- model your nose after the design of the A-10 warthog, a med-speed close air support aircraft

>reshape and embed cockpit glass--forward thrust would rip the canopy off

suggestion- make the leading edge of the canopy part of the aircraft frame, like so:

Edited by SilentJacket on Dec 8, 2012 at 12:24 PM

All excellent points. I can shift the wings back to allow for more canard control, and I'll see what I can do about the tailplane configuration. The canopy right now looks ugly and boxy; I suck at rounded modeling but I'll do what I can do make the canopy more on par with that of an F-22 or F-16.

I wasn't expecting such enthusiastic responses about these aircraft. If you guys could just save them for when I put up the thread dedicated to their design, that'd be great.

well i'm kinda and aircraft nut

i was going for my private pilots license but the economy went to %$it so cost became an issue as avgas is now up to almost $8 a gallon. and the plane i would be flying isn't exactly the most economical thing thing the world

on the other hand good luck on the jets and the map

However, all you guys are thinking about American planes. I am not exactly an aeronautical engineer, but doesn't the SU-34 have fore winglets? (Miniture wings in front of the cockpit)

I do agree the Thunderbolt-II nose design would probably work better.

This reminds me of the beechcraft a bit :P

yes the su-34 does have forward and aft control surfaces making it extremely agile if designed properly. also couple that with thrust vectoring and you all of a sudden find yourself able to do this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvCCSU4F0qs

but those controls are very small in comparison, Gonzo's aircraft has fins that would make the aircraft jackknife due to the forces they would generate (and also kill the pilot due to g-force)

I don't think pulling G's would affect a spartan all that much to be honest.

I think you should add more details and make corners more round. And I think its too large, scale it down a bit.