it's really a nice large map, though i think there are too many vehicles. But in game it might be okay

I was ganna make it were there weren't that many by default, but you could turn them on and off.

Ohh yeah, I just noticed I am on the Most Active Users List!!!

Do you mean Halo 2 Vista, or Halo 2 mod for CE?

I was thinking about doing a Halo 2 seperate version for CE, but I don't have Vista , so I can't make a H2V one.

Also, I was thinking of doing an AI seperate version kind of.. I know very well that AI doesn't sync over a network, but it would be kind of like single player, except when you die, it doesn't restart, it does just like on multiplayer.


Edited by The Spartan on Jul 11, 2007 at 04:18 PM

If only I knew how to put fog planes in a level.... lol


Edited by The Spartan on Jul 11, 2007 at 06:00 PM

Man, I haven't worked on the map any today, I guess I'll start back tommorrow.

I only included the Pelican for CTF, and the BSP isn't that big, most of the map isn't playable, it is just "for looks". I do admit I added to many tanks, but most of them I am going to disable defaultly, but make it where they can enable extra in the game mode options.



Edited by The Spartan on Jul 12, 2007 at 07:53 AM

I don’t normally comment on works in progress mainly because my idea of a fun map often differs from you guys. But this is showing some real potential. I think the size is about right and the addition of the spillway at he bottom of the map looks good. I would take the time to add two enclosed bases so that the flags are not in the open. Maybe put a sidewinder type base into the hill in front of the spillway and a timberland style base at the top of the hill into the hillside. This will give more protection for CTF games. I marked up your picture to show you what I think would make this a great map.



Using your "alpha" map as a basis it takes aprox 50 seconds to walk from base to base, Bloodgulch takes 47 seconds so the size is perfect. Keep in mind that the area behind the dam will not normally be used in game play so concentrate your efforts into the front part to make it balanced. The game play will normally stay between the bases.

Red Base
My thought would be to cut the hill back a little and place a sidewinder or timberland style base into it, leaving some dry space in front for vehicles. It will look like a control center for the dam. The red base at the bottom is at a slight disadvantage since it is easier to snipe downhill than up, also if the other side gets a tank on the dam or on the canyon wall acrros from them the tank will command the red base entrance. I would put 2 teleports inside the red base one to the to the top of the dam which, will allow snipers to cover the field and also kill enemy tanks that manage to get there. And one out to the main play field. If you have an aerial game (banshees) then put turrets in the top of or next to the red base to allow them to cover the entrance from attack by air and cover the side of the dam, where it meets the canyon wall, from tanks.

Blue Base
Using a one level timberland style base will make the flag harder to get away with since there is only one way out, whereas the two level red base has more ways out. The blue bases advantage at the top of the hill is offset buy having two ways to travel to get away. I would place a teleport inside to the mound in front of the base with a turret there to defend against air and ground attack. Maybe make it a covie turret and the red base a human one. The blue's turret has a better vantage point so a lesser powered turret would even the balance. The second teleport either inside or next to the base entrance exiting out across from the red exit.

Vehicles
I would use the standard vehicle set 4 hogs, 2 ghosts, 1 or 2 tanks and 1 or two banshees per side. No more for normal play. Loose the pelican and the extra vehicles. The pelican is useless for normal play any way. If you want leave the tags in the level and name the extra vehicles so people can spawn them with dev-mode. But not for regular play/

Weapons
Standard complement but be picky where you place them. Don't put them all over the place. Example. One sniper on top of the dam. A sniper next to the blue covie turret. One rocket one fuel gun, place the other weapons in the bases. If people can climb up from the teleport exits maybe place a sniper or heavy weapon up on the hill behind a rock.

I think this map has a lot of potential don’t rush it, take your time and test it for placement of the assets and add those details that make a fair map a good one.
Edited by Dennis on Jul 12, 2007 at 02:23 PM

this map is showing alot of promise and Dennis (shock, that he posted comments on a map not that he had good ideas lol) has some good idea. I would however add player cliping so people can't get behind the dam in normal game play. Cause if not on team oddball or assault the team with the base by the dam could get behind the wall and be safe while racking up points.

add more trees and maybe a bunker type thing so people can keep somewhat covered from the sniper rifles. I would put the turret at the top of some small base like an icefields type base. So it's at a good possiton but people could sneak up on the turret and kill the user.

for vehicles i would agree with Dennis about the tanks but only give each side 1. Give each side 1 ghost and for the hogs give each team 2 chain gun hogs and 1 rocket hog. And if you want a banshee thats fine but if you use it make sure the sky is not too high up. Add player cliping or whatever to make sure the banshee can't get too high up. Use an h1 banshee.

For weapons i would suggest some extra flare. Add some other fun tags but keep their placement limited and in strategic places. Add a brute plasma rifle or 2 around the map, maybe a bit away from the base behind a tree or rock. Add a duel smg tag or two but keep them placed in the open so it's a risk to get them as you could be sniped. they would be a good weapon in the map but by keeping placement low it would be a fair weapon. Due to the reload time of the duel smg's and if you make then unable to mele and since you can't throw nades it's a good weapon for upclose combat. (PM me if you want to check out the duel smg's i have). Also perhaps an smg or something.

use a two permutation starting weapon item collection. So when you spawn as your main weapon you either start with a smg or an assault rifle (make the assault rifle maybe a bit more acurate). Also don't forget to put some Plasma Pistols in the map.

those are my suggestions.
Edited by Rm860 on Jul 12, 2007 at 02:39 PM

Actually i think Tarzan was working on a Dam map before The Spartan was. Tarzan named his project Dam Assault and The Spartan used the name not knowing of Tarzan's project i believe. So The Spartan renamed his project to be respectful to Tarzan. But the two maps are going to be very different in how they are played

Dennis did have some good ideas, but did i *cries* i hope so.

but i would use his ideas as a base and go from there. The bases thing was the best idea of all of those

What you should do is make the dam larger and make a room within the dam with windows. Also make it so you can get to the top of the map and see the end of the bsp.

Ooops, sorry Dennis.



Actually, I did know about Tarzan's project, but I didn't know his name was going to be exactly "Dam Assault". I think I remember someone else asking if they could use his idea, and Tarzan said yes, so I figured it would be alright if I could. I just didn't know my name was exactly the same as his. I changed it to "Dam Defense". Not as good in my opinion, but I might change it again.
Edited by The Spartan on Jul 13, 2007 at 08:20 AM

I think you got the bases wrong, on mine, the Blue Base is to the right (the dam side) and the red base is to the left (the hill), it confused me, I was going to place everything oppisite of what you told me, untill I realized lol.
Edited by The Spartan on Jul 13, 2007 at 09:19 AM

LOL, I just picked the two colors as a reference it really doesn't matter which is red or blue. My only point was that there is a lot more to think about in making a good map than vehicles and weapons. The terrain will play a large role in how the game plays out.

As an example look at what I consider one of the best CTF maps ever made: Wartorn cove. 90% of the game is played in the middle at the choke points. The two narrow entrances to the base areas allow for defense and offence at those points. Yet they are placed away from the bases. It is hard to break through but when you do there are multiple routes to the and from the base. Regardless all game play hinges on those two points.

With your map you have open space but as I showed with the yellow lines the major paths converge in the center of the field so much of the fight should occur there. The exception being if people can dominate a base entrance which is why I suggested the turrets and teleport access to each of the bases key points.

When thinking about a map think of all the possibilities of play. What will it be like with or without banshees or tanks or hogs? Since the server can determine vehicle and weapon sets think about what happens if the game is all snipers or heavy weapons or shotguns. Then plan accordingly.

Also think about how the terrain will determine the game play. In your map the mound in front of the (blue in my picture) top base will either force play around it or if Hogs and tanks can they will climb over it and change the dynamics of the game. My recommendation is to make the mound such that vehicles can not climb it.

I like the asymmetry of the map and think it has a unique look and feel. Add bases, improve some of the textures, maybe tweak the terrain a bit, be careful about weapon placement and you will have a winner map.

Yeah, but before I realized it, I was going to place everything backwards. xD

l-le11aciously good map (one of the many here but still...) have you put any consideration in foresting the area and making the inside of the damn look like a dam (if there is an inside(i have not played this map)turbines, electrical jolts(killer- would be hilarious), you know...the usual stuff)

PS- if you need ideas just watch x-men 2
PSS- would it be possible to make it where you could flood the valley with a panel on top of the damn (slayer-instant kills)
Edited by Switchblade on Jul 14, 2007 at 12:28 AM
Edited by Switchblade on Jul 14, 2007 at 12:35 AM

Ok, here are some more pictures of the dam, hopefully obiding Dennis' rules better. The main difference is the new cliff texture and paths to the BSP:
(Sorry, Dennis, I haven't removed the Pelican, but I probably will later.)

i like the water. it sparkles. its prettty. and is that a banshee on the top of the dam? thats a cool place to put it.

Not rules just suggestions, feel free to disagree, there is nothing saying that I am right.
<smile>Vehicle and weapons placement is a the end of the process and is easier to change than the BSP.

I like the layout, just model a couple of bases into the hill and the cliff and then it is just the details.

No by rules, I meant the image size, not your suggestions of the map.

Yeah, the main difference is the cliff textures and the paths, compare the cliffs from my newest pictures from oldest, way better, I actually didn't change anything to the weapon placement.

I like most of your ideas (well, not so sure about the bases, but I might, I haven't made my mind up).




lol, I'm sure it is possible somehow, but I wouldn't want to do that, I might just do a second version with all of my crazy ideas (lol like the Pelican and even AI and modded weapons) it wouldn't be for multiplayer, but it would be fun just to do.



Edited by The Spartan on Jul 14, 2007 at 07:16 PM