Heyo. Made an account so I could post about this incredibly frustrating little bug I'm stuck with.

Sapian refuses to allow me to add any sort of tag to a tag type list. Clicking add causes nothing to happen. There are no logs in debug and there are no tag errors.

The debug doesn't report any errors with sapian. Everything is running fine according to it.

03.16.19 16:34:21  a hobo pc 01.01.00.0609 ----------------------------------------------
03.16.19 16:34:21  reference function: _write_to_error_file
03.16.19 16:34:21  reference address: 401b13
03.16.19 16:34:21  Couldn't read map file './a_hobobeta.map'
03.16.19 16:34:21  CreateDevice succeeded with refresh rate = 0
03.16.19 16:34:21  Sound card doesn't meet minimum hardware requirements.  Disabling hardware option.
03.16.19 16:34:22  Increasing sound decompression buffer size to 1048576 bytes
03.16.19 16:34:45  the meter definition ui\hud\cyborg shield does not specify a stencil bitmap group.
03.16.19 16:34:45  the meter definition ui\hud\cyborg body does not specify a stencil bitmap group.
03.16.19 16:34:49  local player 0, weapon (0x0), deleted unexpectedly

Just in case you ask. This is what the logs look like from start.
None of these errors are out of the ordinary from my eyes.

A quick test told me as much. Deleted a tag in a list that was already in the map. And tried to add it back. No dice. No feed back. No error. No log entry.

I'm pulling my hair out trying to fix the issue. I've done everything from compatibility settings on and off, reinstalling everything. Re extracting tags using refinery.
running admin. Using kornmans version, using base version.

One thing I can do is add tags via gorilla to a list. But that is the most pain the the butt way possible.

So I'm wondering if any of you have run into this exact type of issue before and am hoping you could help me fix it.

OS:win10 64
Edited by Silver on Mar 16, 2019 at 04:59 PM

"a hobo"
Try using normal sapien and seeing if it goes away.

I did. I didn't make it super clear. But I mentioned that in the things I tried.

I'm really surprised at how dead the forums are. With so many views you'd expect at least one person who might know something about this odd bug.

Running as admin? Disable desktop composition and run in compatibility mode for Win 7. What directory are you running out of?

Admin yep.

That's not actually an option for me on windows 10

compatibility with 7 didn't do anything.

I'm running it out of a secondary drive.

G:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Halo Custom Edition

qedit: I did make sure that perms were set up properly and that files weren't set to read only.

Edited by Silver on Mar 16, 2019 at 10:40 PM

Have you uninstall/reinstall HEK? All updates to runtimes and DLLs?
Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 16, 2019 at 11:03 PM

Indeed. I even made sure to try it before updating.

Those are the basics. Haven't heard of this before, Google is turning up nothing on Halomaps.

You've used Sapien before, and know how to use it right? I don't want to ask if the computer's plugged in if you know what you're doing.

I did see this solution posted elsewhere in the search I had made through Halomaps, but from what he's saying it's not even bringing the dialogue menu up. Not sure if I misunderstood.
Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 17, 2019 at 10:13 AM

what tag are you trying to add?

Try opening Guerilla and go to starting equipment: delete all weapons in there and add in just the stock AR & Pistol and see if this fixes the issue. Just trying to isolate that last line in the debug.txt

...also if you have a clean copy of your "globals" tags try and place back into your tags folder to see if this also fixes your issue...then we can start with adding that "special tag" back in

Edited by Kal_El on Mar 17, 2019 at 12:16 PM

Oh yeah. I've been mapping for years. since 2010.

Yeah all of the tags are there.

I'm trying to add some basic actor_variants and scenery.
The edit types menu is the thing I'm trying to add tags to.

There are no errors with the tag folder because I can open the map in guerrilla and add the tags there just fine.

If there was a tag error I'd be able to see it in logs I'm pretty sure.

E:This happens with any tag I try to add regardless if it was in the map already or not.
Edited by Silver on Mar 17, 2019 at 01:45 PM

This is a bit of a misnomer; the tag being in the map is just a directory reference until Tool compiles it. So if your tags weren't in a folder called TAGS in the same directory as Sapien, that would probably cause issues. All your TAGS are in a folder called TAGS in the same directory as Sapien Guerilla and Tool, correct?

Correct. I have a clean tags folder in the same directory as sapian.

I've used refinery to re-extract the tags.

I was just able to add tags through gorilla. But not sapian. just to test.

Yeah I'm stumped. I figured somebody else would have heard something or had a solution. I still run Windows 7, so I can't offer too much insight outside of the obvious.

I'm gonna run through it in detail just to make sure it's clear for anybody else who may be reading that can help. I'm sorry if it offends you, I don't think you're stupid. I want to do a full "Is the computer plugged in" breakdown, because nobody else has described this issue you're having, that's not how the program normally works of course, and I myself misunderstood a few parts of the topic earlier on and may still be confused, as may others.

So, to make clear for anybody else that would be contributing;


You start with fresh tags, or a rip with Refinery, in a folder called TAGS, inside the same folder as Sapien, Guerilla and Tool. You also have a full, "legal" (or close enough) installation of Halo CE with all the .DLLs present in this same directory. This is setup just like a normal installation of Halo CE and the HEK, without anything placed in sub-directories.

The drive this directory is insatlled on, and all files within the directory can be accessed by Windows Explorer and you have Admin privileges on the directory. For redundancy, all programs are being run as administrator. Your computer is up to date on all drivers and updates, and is a full "legal" (or close enough) version of Windows 10. All programs run without error messages, and you can play Halo.

You open a scenario tag with Sapien. Everything loads and the level displays. You can move around the level. In the Hierarchy View window you click "Edit Types" button on top which brings up a window that says Dialog. This window has a dropdown called Object Class that has the different tag types. When you change the Object Class, you can see the tags of that type that are referenced by the scenario appear in the space below. Further down, there's a button on bottom called Add. When you click Add, a window pops up for you to select a tag. You select an appropriate tag that matches the Tag Class of the dropdown you selected. No error displays or shows up in Debug.txt, but the tag is not added to the list of Tags.




That's exactly how it happens, right? Anything you want to add?

That is exactly it. I do want to add that I've reinstalled the game and hek already a few times And tried compatibility stuff.

The scariest type of ghost bug I've ever seen. scary and super inconvenient.

maybe unrelated but I just bought a new PC and had to change the "affinity" cores to read just one core....usually isolated to Sapien not working correctly but if you had made a new purchase you may want to look into this:

http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm%3Fpage=topic&topicID=39601

worked for me


btw...I'm trying to add some basic actor_variants

how are you adding these in? unless you are ripping from another map that has these they will not compile correctly. using Refinery, you may need to click on "over-write" tags to have them pull across
Edited by Kal_El on Mar 17, 2019 at 10:08 PM
Edited by Kal_El on Mar 17, 2019 at 10:09 PM

Oh yeah I did that. The AI tags I had before were very snipped by Hek+. I manually fixed them a while ago, but better safe than sorry.

I'll look at the link, could fix the issue.

Not sure why core restriction would make sapian work any different. I'll still try it.

Edit:Like I thought, nothing actually changed there.
Edited by Silver on Mar 18, 2019 at 12:56 AM