Hey guys. As some of you may or may not have noticed that Zteam has a few 'errors' within their tagset and I've been playing around this year trying to fix them. Fortunately I managed to fix all but 2 errors. One of the 2 is the sentinel beam. I know I've been given permission to use one in a private/personal mod but I don't really like being spoon fed and I feel bad using other's hard work. Anyway,

So. I examined both the working Takedown and Zteam sentinel beams so far I found a few inconsistencies:
1. The sound files had different values
2. The muzzle flash files had different values

So I managed to fix the muzzle flash so it actually shows up when firing however regardless of fixing the sound file's values, for some reason the sentinel beam still does not have a fire sound. This also happens if you extract the Takedown sentinel beam.

So what is going on here?

The weapon has no fire sound regardless of setting it up correctly and entering the correct values AND despite Takedown's sentinel beam being flawless, once extracted, it too somehow magically loses it's fire sound too. Uhhh... What the...?

Does Guerrilla break something? How did Takedown get their SB working? Before anyone says extract it, like I said I was given permission to extract it, I already did so and for some reason it breaks just like mine.
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Dec 29, 2016 at 07:34 PM
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Dec 29, 2016 at 07:36 PM

The tag in takedown is probably a modified tag from Z team. So when you extracted because you had the original tag it didn't extract takedowns modified tag . First you should delete the current sentinel tags and then extract from takedown.

If two tags have the same name and directory then HEK+ Will only overwrite it if overwrite tags is enabled. However if you extract an entire map with overwrite tags enabled it will incorrectly extract certain tags and ruin your tagset completely.

I emptied my tag folder and extracted Takedown to test it in a clean empty tag folder and the same thing happens. This is so weird it is actually making me kinda frustrated.

I managed to fix the muzzle flash and fix the sound tag's values but still no sound... There has to be something I've missed!!!

I know it is right here in front of me...

Tbh I just set the hek+ to xtract to my desktop, then from there I manually cut and paste e.t.c

This is the best way to do it, IMO.

Ok this is just strange...

Can someone extract sentinel_gun_red and sentinel_gun_blue from takedown_projectlawson_p2 and compile it into a map and tell me if you get the same results?

I don't understand what is going on here...

did you run Halo_Editing_Kit_Plus as admin ?

Yes. Everything is always admin when I'm running it, I learnt this the hard way back in the day. So I tried something else now...

I extracted just the sound assets and copied them into zteam's SB with the same paths, tags etc. and the same result occurs.

Its like the fire.effect or weapon's function or something just isn't working right when extracted. This is so odd.

The sound is linked to the weapon's function area (not at the bottom of the weapon tag area where dryfire/fire effects go nor the actual fire effects tag). This is strange because every weapon I've looked at, the fire.sound is usually in the firing.effect tag. Though if you set it up that way the sound loops too long.

The tool error if you try to compile a map with the working SB:
01.01.17 10:18:25 tool pc 01.00.00.0609 ----------------------------------------------
01.01.17 10:18:25 reference function: _write_to_error_file
01.01.17 10:18:25 reference address: 42ca20
01.01.17 10:18:25 Couldn't read map file './toolbeta.map'
01.01.17 10:18:53 WARNING: 1 clusters in structure_bsp levels\custom\tagtest\tagtest have no background sound or sound environment.
01.01.17 10:18:53 EAX: 0x00000000
01.01.17 10:18:53 EBX: 0x000B0000
01.01.17 10:18:53 ECX: 0x0002918A
01.01.17 10:18:53 EDX: 0x0017D838
01.01.17 10:18:53 EDI: 0x19EA1000
01.01.17 10:18:53 ESI: 0x19DC7DF0
01.01.17 10:18:53 EBP: 0x000754AC
01.01.17 10:18:53 ESP: 0x0019A4B0
01.01.17 10:18:53 EIP: 0x00436131, F3 AB 8B CA ?????
01.01.17 10:18:53 EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Dec 31, 2016 at 06:27 PM

Corrupted tags, most likely caused by the hek+ overwriting tags.

You can't fix them afaik.

So far I've tried about fifty times and the same results occur. Guerrilla is all fine as it shows no red lines, Sapien functions properly but once you hit the Tool stage the corruption occurs.

Guess MattD should know this. Really odd...
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Jan 1, 2017 at 05:46 AM

Did you recursively rip and override everything?

This is what I was trying to explain NoobModder117.

HEK+ can't properly rip some random tags. Random tags that every mapfile uses, that are vital to the mapfile being built.

When a tag is corrupted, we're not talking about the tag in guerilla. We're talking about it's raw data; there are values in the tag you can't edit. And you may not even have the corrupted tag open.


Only way to fix corrupted tags is to copy a STOCK TAGS folder, and paste it overtop your current TAGS folder replacing all the files within.

Any modified tags will default back to original, but it'll fix your tagset. Hopefully.





For future reference; ONLY OVERWRITE IF YOU'RE EXTRACTING INDIVIDUAL TAGS. Until you learn what you're doing when you extract tags and what the program does, if you follow that rule it'll keep you out of trouble.
Edited by DeadHamster on Jan 1, 2017 at 08:44 AM

First I override my tag set and then used clean and empty sets for obvious test purposes.

I've tried both recursive and setting everything up manually.

Literally every alternative you could list I've most likely done.

Damn this sucks. I hate running into these random errors. Especially because I've never encountered it with anything else...

Should I just scrap the sentinel beam? I don't want another SMG yearly catastrophe to happen. It's 2017 I think it's time for me to continue on single player.

Thanks for enduring this crap with me anyway guys!
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Jan 1, 2017 at 08:46 AM

So people here are sort of right.

While HEK+ can corrupt tags, it is uncommon and most of the time will result in a crash of the tools when they try to access it. The exception to this is sounds and bitmaps that are stock to the game but ripped from a Halo CE map. You'll know when this is because the sounds will sound like static and noise and the bitmaps will be all rainbowy.

What is more likely, is that it simply isn't extracting it correctly. There are a few things that when HEK+ extracts from the map file, it incorrectly reconstructs a field. In the stock game I believe the problem are, the tank, monitor, monitor lightning particle, sentinel function for the shielding (I believe this is also broke in H1:A and MCC, so maybe it's just broken in the PC port) and the weapon labels will default to AR.

So it's possible it for whatever reason isn't extracting and reconstructing the tag right, in which case I'd download the real time editor to take a look at the tag when it's loaded in memory (even though that app has a few small problems of it's own).

As some were saying about HEK+ being set to overwrite being your issue... I use mine in overwrite mode 99% of the time, and the only thing you need to worry about it overwriting something when doing that is recursive extraction of tags. The only tags it will certainly corrupt when ripping from CE is the bitmaps and sounds.


Also, there is also the "Halo Tag Converter" app which was the predecessor to HEK+. The version I released was a beta I still had laying around from the creator, and in some rare instances it can rip a few things better than HEK+, but most of the time you are better off sticking to HEK+.


Edit: Does the sound play back in guerilla? Does the sound work with another weapon tag? It's possible the function for the weapon is simply broken.
Edited by Masters1337 on Jan 1, 2017 at 10:35 AM

The sound plays in Guerrilla, no red lines, no Sapien issues, no Tool issues.

In game the sound just doesn't play at all despite being right there in the function tab.

If I move the sound to the fire.effect (where most sounds are that I've seen in other weapons) the sound will play but not loop correctly (shades of SMG).

If you extract or set up an exact duplicate of MattD's, you'll get as far as the Tool stage and then it will finally complain about corruption.

What confuses me is whenever something is corrupt I can't normally pass the Guerrilla or Sapien stage, but getting as far as the Tool stage AND then getting an error just baffles me.

what if you move the sound to the SMG sound looping? Does it play then?

And the tools are always temperamental with certain things failing in one or not the other.

Did you rip it from the Yelo or Map version of Takedown? Use the map

Master: Sound plays.
MattD: Map file.

Guys don't worry about it. I really thought hard and actually had no idea where to implement it into the game anyway.

Thanks anyway.

make a copy of your smg sound looping, and replace each sound in it with your new sounds one by one until you have something working or see where it fails.

The SMG doesn't need a sound looping in its file, it just needs a brand new sound to replace the H2 one.

In regards to the sentinel beam, perhaps Dratt could release his version of the tags for it assuming they aren't long gone?

This gentleman above me had already solved that issue. This SB is a whole new can of <missing string>.

Extract=Corrupt
Set up=No Sound
Path Alteration=Long Loop Sound

I think Dratt can be a hero here and release his flawless masterpiece.

I officially give up.

I'll be getting back to fixing my damn Tool...
Edited by Halo Noob Modder117 on Jan 2, 2017 at 07:14 PM