Yadda yadda, no point in arbitrary limits, etc.

I know there's a tool out there that has been used and confirmed to do this - compiling OS .map files that are beyond 128mb limits.

This is super useful for adding some nicer shaders using the OS shader extensions, but without having to skimp on bitmap resolutions to stay under the nazi 128 limit.

I would like to use it, and I know it's one of those "ooh spooky lets guard it" secret things, so if you have it, I would like to ask for it with no intention to distribute - I just would like to experiment with OS shaders without having to make MP maps that no one will ever play because they require the full build of OS (.yelo). Not to mention the issues with w10/OS, so having OS .map files that anyone can play but simply give an little more eye candy to those who have OS already.

soon(TM)

I think we all like the idea of it but its just locked up for now.

More like not finished. :/

Well, it exists, but by the moment, isn't planned to be released. But yeah, coming soon.

You *could* use tool_pro but I wouldn't recommend it. I only tell you because I hope you will be responsible enough to use the force for good. I mean, uh. Tool.

Good luck finding it.
Edited by Kinnet on Jan 8, 2016 at 08:01 PM

Tool_pro is fine. Only gives exceptions if you mess up the map to begin with. Source: look at every rev map I've ever released over 128mb.

There may have been malicious versions released over time, but I'm inclined to believe it's a bit of a straw man. Someone had something happen they didn't understand, chalked it up to tool_pro, maybe an online virus scanner (lmao who the hell thinks that's a legitimate thing?) flagged it, oh and Dennis said so (again lol).

It's a tool that serves its purpose.

OS_Tool map builds over 128 would be nice because of the shader extensions that would not require releasing a .yelo pariah MP map. No one will likely ever consider OS Multiplayer a success. I'm sure it works great, and it provides umpteen benefits of great magnitude to both devs and players - but for reasons like installing OS and hac2 compatibility and crappy map downloading and lack of a decent server application to support it, it won't and hasn't taken off in popularity, which in an online-driven game is really the only measure of success worth mentioning.

It's great for SP, hands down superior in every way there.

I would like to have .map files that OS users can end up using as a replacement (or just standalones) and see the benefits of postprocessing, specular (real spec), and normal maps, just to name a few of the benefits that can be added into a backwards-compatible map.

Anyone else not using OS could also use these maps, and therefore have incentive to actually play them. Heck, they may even give OS a shot to see the better shaders, who knows.

I'm even looking into (although very lightly as it would require a lot of work I'm not sure I'm willing to commit to) spoofing checksums for a series of maps to make them join-friendly for CE. Think replacements for stock maps that you can actually replace the originals with because they will produce the same checksums as the originals. It's quite simple, we have the code that calculates checksums, and therefore we know what needs to be done to alter unimportant map data to produce a different checksum - so even a brute force method is.....possible. I'm not sure if it's feasible at the moment, however, so don't take this as a statement that I'm going to work on it :P

OS and Hac2 both have open functions for doing this calculation, so there are twice as many routes to the end goal there, but hey.


In all reality, with the source for compiling OS_tool in the first place, simply altering the allocated memory space for the cache file's creation is...trivial. Compile a map over 128, see where it breaks, check out the assembly, fix the issue. Could probably even look at tool and tool_pro side by side to see how it's done in the first place. It's really not an exceptional achievement other than the fact that someone was patient enough and driven enough to slog through it and do so themselves.

For them not to release it or claim it isn't "finished" yet is...odd. It either works or it doesn't - there's not some dark magic going on that prevents builds over 128mb - it's an arbitrary limit set to prevent larger cache files for a time when that was important and 128mb was actually a large size.

I'm beating a dead horse about the tool_pro bit, since anyone with the requisite knowledge of how that type of thing works (not trying to get on a soapbox here - I'm about to graduate with a CS degree and I know there are still many people more qualified than I on the subject in the community) has yet to denounce its reliability for any reason other than a specifically malicious version.

It's a silly rumor started and perpetuated by people who don't really know what they're talking about. I don't think it's malicious, but it's sad that a perfectly legitimate tool that extends what you can do with the game, which is one of the biggest reasons anyone is still around at this point, is considered taboo for reasons as baseless as any major superstition.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't go far in my book, but I'll provide some anyway: I've used tool_pro for >3 years, had 0 viruses on my computer in that time, no malicious behavior, no odd networking traffic emanating from the computer, no odd startup patterns, no exceptions from maps compiled with tool_pro that weren't later discovered to be my own stupid mistakes, no unexpected behavior at all from anything output with it in any way. I've compiled bitmaps with it, sounds with it (no models though, sorry), and maps with it, most of which have been put into publicly available maps from which I've received 0 negative testing results from (in the way of exceptions, obviously a lot of negative results for other reasons :P).

In fact I can't remember a single time any of the maps I've pumped out (albeit no 100% custom content) have produced an unexpected crash or exception or done anything unexpected that wasn't a direct result of the tags compiled into the map in a bad way.

Long story short - if your version of tool_pro isn't specifically a malicious program in and of itself (made by someone specifically for this purpose), and your map exceptions after compilation - the problem is between your keyboard and your chair. Don't make a scapegoat out of a program with most likely less than 50 altered lines of code just because you didn't understand what was happening behind the scenes.

If you ride a bike without training wheels, and you crash and get a boo-boo, don't blame the bike. Put the training wheels back on until you can ride a big-boy bike.


Specifically at Jesse, I'm sorry if this sounded directed at you - I'm sure after your comment it sounds like I'm throwing a bunch of hate your way - that's the furthest from the truth. I'm pretty sure your post was sarcastic in nature, but I'm so, SO tired of reading this uninformed garbage on this forum that I just kind of got diarrhea of the keyboard here and threw it all out.


I probably sound like Sparky with this novel - although I'm sorry I don't have amazing, life-altering vaporware to complete the imitation.

I have a special friend who is using this tool with his maps, and it causes them to not work with OpenSauce.

Another one of my friends made a great point too -- whats the point in using OS if you're compiling it as a .map over the 128 mb size limit?

- Especially when said map will cause compatibility issues with OS. When you use said "tools" to compile .maps with OS over the limit, it causes OS to not work. For example, when you join a server featuring a map that has utilized such methods, it does not cause an immediate crash. It instead causes the game to fade to a completely black screen, and no amount of user input can be used to recover from the phenomena.

That's a fantastic point guys. If the limit breaks the compatibility for OS, then there is absolutely no point to it at all.

really? the one i'm using hasn't done that.

Apparently, the map I recently played on with Nick had this issue. When I asked him what the deal was, and why I would have to disable my OS by removing dinput8.dll, he told me that he thought it was the tools in question that would cause the "black screen" incompatibility with OS. Whether or not that's the case, I am not 100% sure. But, it is likely the culprit, as nothing else out of the ordinary was in practice, as far as I know.

I'm not saying tool_pro has any malware, my issue before was probably due to some other problem (like not shutting down my PC properly or something)

I only advise caution because there's a possibility that for some users it might not work the way they expect. People here are reporting different effects or consequences, but that's up to others to determine what it all means. I've seen people create maps that were 300+ MB just because they were ignorant enough to use 32 bit 1024 x 1024 (upscaled) bitmaps... Why?

It's different if someone needs 150 MB to create a map that couldn't fit in less.

I haven't had a single issue with tool_pro, look at Bigass for example. If there are any issues, it's most likely not tool's fault.

Random exceptions though.

...what random exceptions?

Getting the spade stuck in a specific tree I can't remember which since I haven't played in a while.

And whilst on a solo venture patrolling the outskirts of blue or red base I encountered a specific clipping error (night sky bsp). It's probably worth mentioning that after I experienced the error I couldn't reproduce it no matter what.

Side note please release the pete burns mongoose.

If you are referring to the "new os_tool", nope, the os_tool from Sled (our team leader) which NeX is talking about does not have that issues. We're working in maps with the special tool (that even increases the vertex limit from 32mb to 48mb, and that makes a lot of advantage) and we're not experiencing that kind of problems.
Edited by Isxz on Jan 9, 2016 at 09:20 AM

Why weren't you in one of my Christmas presents.



(f'ing nitted CE3 sweaters.)

I am not referring to tool, the HEK program, and I was not even aware there were any "modifications" of os_tool.

I am experiencing an issue when building .map files that are over 382MB the map isn't able to be selected from the list ingame when hosting. Has nothing to do with which tool I compile with. Any of my builds under 382MB show up in the list and I found this quite strange. Also any of the .map files I build cannot be loaded or server joined without removing the os .dll as Bungie LLC said above. Any help with this would be awesome, but it isn't a huge problem, as normal clients can load the map with no issue if I keep it under 382 and most people that have os know how to remove the .dll to disable it so they can play the map. Thanks guys =)

So a potential in-game limit to somehow bypass? I may play around and see what happens around 382mb.