Don't worry arby it will happen don't get your hopes up though

no, it will not.

I did write something in yellow text, plus I was joking.

when picking what to do next, tsc:e team elected to try tsc:e due to concerns about both the team's inexperience with from-scratch level & encounter design, and the potential resource pitfalls (not to mention quality issues) that could come from a completely new story and completely new dialogue. considering how long tsc:e's taken, I think the decision was justified; to be honest I don't think the team as it was in 2012 was properly equipped to pull off something on a fully-custom scale at the level of quality and coherence at which we'd be comfortable shipping. working on this thing has caused everybody involved to jump up so many levels of skill & experience

with that said, the beach and cartographer field areas that we've shown are easily the two most "traditional" pieces of level design in the map. pretty much everything else (barring 1 (and a half) very pointedly deliberate lifts from the stock level) was designed more with a general "where are we on the pacing curve right now" "what can we throw at player that they haven't seen yet" mindset, taking inspiration less from the actual structure of b30 and more from mood and pace. it hasn't taken it's-getting-close-to 3 years to make for nothing

The work of other people has zero affect on your intellect.

Them making a mod has no influence on your skill. Skill is only developed by hours and hours and hours of beating on yo craft. There is no magic formula for it, and other people cannot do it for you.

they may not be able to do it for you but they can easily assist you, and teach you tricks and tips to increase your prowess at any specific skill. While I can understand your sentiment, I don't think Flanker's statement is completely unwarranted

Flanker's wording and semantics are probably the real issue.

Intellect is of course unaffected by actions of others.

If the real CMT (the team making this specific level) does provide tutorials (on what though, Open Sauce? Aside from this I don't think they can provide information that isn't already out there if you do the effort of looking for it) it offers a chance for one to improve his knowledge of that subject. But one's skill doesn't magically increase while this CMT is making their level.

Ultimately the only people really benefiting from a skill increase by this project, is the team itself, because they spent those years beating on their craft.

Flanker's statement is just a bit of fanboy'ish overratement, if that is a word.

Quote: --- Original message by: SS Flanker
That's a fair statement but CMT's work certainly has sped up our skill and intellect. And without them I shudder to think where we would be today.
The work of other people has zero affect on your intellect.
Them making a mod has no influence on your skill. Skill is only developed by hours and hours and hours of beating on yo craft. There is no magic formula for it, and other people cannot do it for you.


Johnlex2 did it. Your argument is invalid.
Edited by AlekosGR on Jan 11, 2015 at 11:39 PM

Both TSC:E and SPV3 are going to have all their content open sourced at release. Post release you will have have access to the scripting setups, as well as all the tags in the maps.

So things like boarding, vehicle health systems, boosting, hog healthpacks, toggleable grenade launchers, ramable shades, that will all be possible to add into your maps with ease after TSC:E is released, with things like the Armor Upgrades, new weapon behaviors being available when SPV3 releases.

This is on top of all the tags, which includes all the new particles, sounds, models, animations for you to use in your own projects. Considering how widespread SPV2 tags were used, we expect to see them incorporated into multiple maps. There is plenty to learn from what is coming, but if you just need pretty OS stuff for your maps, well, thats there too.

that along with Lag and Ifafu's many odd explained tutorials

Well we all know SPV3 isn't the real CMT, but just you having your personal project out of, well, pitty. There's a reason the rest of CMT is no longer following your lead, and there's a reason they have very different views on gameplay.

But onto the flesh and bones of CMT, this project. So the argument is: tutorials and tags pertaining to OS will increase "intellect and skill" of people, almost magically.

That changes nothing to what I said earlier, this will not increase people's intellect or skill, just provide them more materials to learn OS at most. Otherwise, not much new that isn't already out there.

I think some of you are taking this the wrong way just because it isn't in line with the fanboy standard that is usually posted here.

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

... You guys are getting a free project from an unpaid team.

You don't HAVE to be getting anything at all!

Who cares what's better, be it SPV3, an Evloved map, Sierra, Coldsnap 2.0, or H6 Super Jonlex'o Brothers, it's FREE. It costs you nothing to play or not play. You do not lose anything by these people choosing to work on the projects they want to.

The concept behind evolved maps seems great,you get new BSP and encounters and it's essentially a new level altogether. Being a "remake" of a classic halo gives them some story related benchmarks as a framework.

While I agree SPV3 isn't as nice as the "Evolved" project, it's still interesting. It still brings new assets, mechanics, and other ideas to be played.

You cannot realistically expect ANY unpaid team to create "Evolved" version of every single campaign map. The mod that SPV3 essentially is, is still a nice alternative to nothing at all.

Everything in CE is a rehash one way or another.

If you really want a completely new/different experience, why don't you go and buy another game?


Or am I on to something here..

Frosty do you have to bring SMT into everything?
Persona > SMT

1. Developers can be held to certain standards because you lose something by purchasing their game (money). Providing you with a satisfactory product is the job they get paid to do. This is not the case with a mod team like CMT. You get a free experience, they don't pocket anything from you playing the mod they made in their free time because they wanted to, not because they were contractually obligated to. You can hold them to professional standards if you want to, but I don't hold McDonald's to the same standards as, say, a 5-star restaurant, because that'd be silly.
2. By your own explanation of what a rehash is, SPV3 isn't a rehash. They're polishing and adding features, story elements, and BSPs to the original campaign.

Food for thought.
Edited by Echo77 on Jan 12, 2015 at 02:23 AM

Oh, carry on then.

here we go...

I acknowledge that Persona is a SMT spinoff but most Persona fans wouldn't consider themselves SMT fans since they only care about Persona 3 and onwards. Atlus dropped the "Shin Megami Tensei" label with P3 in Japan and P4A in the rest of the world. You seem to get triggered whenever someone brings up Persona, lmao.

Why are you talking about Sexy Mapping Team in here?

Because Frosty likes being a minority.

With such a wonderful fanbase, it's incredible that CMT bothers at all. People whining this much about free stuff (that they're free to ignore) need to get a life.
Edited by AntonMK14 on Jan 12, 2015 at 08:13 AM

Just as soon as you stop wasting space.

You have a right to expect whatever level of quality you want from things, even if you do absolutely nothing to get them. You also have a right to voice when others don't meet your precious standards.

Everyone's still going to think you're an entitled little wristwatch.

The only veteran CMT member working on TSC:E is Lag, the rest of the people involved before are all SPV3, but thanks for trying to make things personal.

The hope is (for me at least) that the release of new content, features, methods, and tutorials will help enhance peoples projects and teach them new skills. With pretty much every CMT tag release, we've seen people using SPV2 or SPV3 borrow or used as a base for content in their mods, or have our stuff thrown in for extra flavor, even you Lumoria folk borrowed particles, bipeds and BSP for your campaign.

So maybe some people's "intellect and skill" will increase looking at our stuff, and maybe some people will just start using pretty content in their projects. Either way, sounds good to me and I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

Oh man, all this for some incorrect semantics and wording by Flanker.
Sheesh!


Edited by DaLode on Jan 12, 2015 at 11:57 AM

@DaLode: Who said CMT's tags would increase people's skill and intellect 'magically'? Whether people want to study the tags to actually learn something from them is up to them, but I suspect at least a few people will, thus Flankers is in part correct. A lot of people will probably just take the tags and dump them in their maps without even thinking about it though so it is also true that not everyone will learn from them.

@SubbyBoneHead: You can't be a complete bonehead so I assume you already understand that holding volunteer modders to the same standards as paid devs is ridiculous. Stop trying to hold up your original point and just admit you're wrong. There isn't even much of an argument to be made here. Basically, CMT gain nothing from your consuming their work so they could offer you the equivelant of a plain slice of bread and you'd still be the only one benefiting. You can just ignore that offering if you don't care for it's miniscule benefit to you and move on.

The self-importance here has broken through "annoying" and reached "hilarious".

Oh poo.

The best way I can describe every post on this page, people have gotten triggered and proven wrong because of their opinion's. But who can blame anybody this is how I see it.

I support dis gai

I like to view it more as an average political debate.
People like to only read the parts they want, and mostly don't see the picture clearly. Then, having poorly analysed the situation, they attempt to make an intelligent reply.

There are but few exceptions, including me, of course. I'd be a good guy politician :-)

You're joking. You're joking, right? You expect a small team of people voluntarily working on a 13 year old game mod for no benefit to themselves to be able to hold up to the standards of multimillion gaming companies with teams of over 100 professional developers?

There's no way you're serious.

Yeaa right...

u guis
stahp the fightin
ur making the children cry

This is like an argument between an obnoxious elitist kid sitting at the table in the cafeteria and all the other children who are just trying to have a good time.