I don't have anything against OS, it is a nice program as I have actually used it personally from both Masters and Korn. What do I have against it though is the elitism it is backed by, which quite frankly is ridiculous.

The unit infections aren't drastically changing gameplay at all, all it does is simply turn an AI to another side, add an animation and change a biped. They are interesting though, same with gravity changing a few other things, but they do not change the basic core gameplay elements the game uses and rely on. Once again, my point is that both OS, and Halo CE by itself, has never shown its true potential as an editing kit, as most of the projects that has been created in it do not stray far from the original game.

Oh wow, I never knew that. ty
Question: Is TM (Higuy, TM_Updates) just mad/jelly because they're making a custom campaign and CMT isn't?
Not trying to be offensive with that question...
Edited by SlappyThePirate on Nov 10, 2011 at 07:36 PM

It's an open source program, which requires you to have prior programming experience to develop for it. If you consider that elitism, then I don't know what to say. Programming is a skill that has a learning curve, are you saying anyone that can program is part of the "elite" in this instance? If that's the case, any elitism you perceive can be solved by teaching yourself a new skill.

And I was just showing the unit infections as an example of a gameplay altering extension, despite what you say it does alter gameplay. If I'm assaulting a base with a team of marines and they suddenly get infected and turn on me, that's a pretty different gameplay mechanic than the original game. Thus gameplay altering.

Elitism as in the CMT people, and a couple of the people working on OS itself. There really is only 1 or 2 people on the team that I actually consider reasonable people. And yes programming has a learning curve, but as far as it goes its the same thing with the artistic people from before. Just becuase your good dosent give you the right to be a jerk to the person who isn't as good or, in your opinion, has a "different view".

And no, if you read my post, it does not effect CORE GAMEPLAY. It is simply an AI/encounter function that allows more possibilities in that department.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but you seem pretty hostile. I just don't see any elitism going on. Maybe I've been away too long. Also, I never said it effects core gameplay, just gameplay in general. It's a fps, you really can't do much to the CORE GAMEPLAY that hasn't been done before.
Edited by Choking Victim on Nov 10, 2011 at 07:49 PM

My post was not directed to you being a jerk. Quite frankly the entire time you have been quite reasonable compared to some others.

And no, you are being simply minded. Once again for the last time;

Core gameplay includes being a FPS. What im saying is that no team has attempted something new; say a 3rd person game, were you could tell AI to move up or advance with a key stroke, set on a brand new world with new characters and a story. All of that is quite possible, without OS.

quite frankly i use those two words alot.

Programming pisses me off

jeez, stfu.

Bored off seeing arguing which will result in 0 change. It is getting boring.

Because doing nothing will create alot of change.

That doesn't really change core gameplay all that much. The AI already advance with you and all they do is distract enough enemies for you to take them out. Unless your talking about creating a super AI that goes around doing what you should be doing (beating the game).

Game already has third person view.
Edited by Sprinkle on Nov 10, 2011 at 08:17 PM

You guys really do seem oblivious to my point, so I'm not even going to bother to try to explain it for the fourth time to you all.

I'm pretty sure that his point was that this engine is capable of alot more than what people have been using it for so far. That applies to this campaign mod as well, with or without OS.

Don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

halo would be perfect for an arena-style shooter like quake

unfortunately nobody's taken a shot at it because everybody nuts bricks over realism and the halo universe

Mookz:

You're capable, you do it.

Higuy:

I agree with you, but this is how they want to use their talent. I honestly don't see reason to complain since the gameplay will remain at its core for the campaign, but will have some nice new additions to make it even more awesome.

yeah m00kz go do it and while you're at it go sodomize a jackal

oh wait, you were talking to me weren't you

while I may be more than capable of doing so, I fail to see any benefit out of doing so other than saying I tinkered around with a closed-source engine and modified some variables and made some art assets to change the game a bit

don't really have time for that these days

dear tm guys; so i just finished catchin up on the thread. and seriously why are you all hating on cmt.... your mods are good at gameplay theirs are good at looks. you keep saying that cmt should make custom sp maps... their first post said they were going to. regarding their elitism, sure they have some of that but so does anybody else who is better than somebody at something. its a given. TM ITSELF is elitist about making custom gameplay. you act like nobody else can do it. just sayin. and saying that the engine has alot more potential is like looking at a blue sky and saying "wow that could be way more blue" ei not saying anything useful at all as its pointless. yeah its got alot of potential. see the thing about success is; if you see the potential then YOU utilize it. dont cry about how others aren't also your critisim (almost every word of it) could have been sent thru pm's. thats not to say you were wrong ab dano's elitism im just saying all that could have been settled internally.

note; your opinions HAVE been heard. and are on record.
subnote; its not your team. opinion all you want.

How are we elitist about gameplay? We have always been helpful to other people in that regard and if people have complaints we take note of it rather than discard it "cuz we r da pros". There's plenty of other people out there who understand it well, people like Lone and Sinow come to mind.

And the point about the engine was that people go berserk about OS, while they don't even understand what all can be done with the vanilla engine. OS would only be good if it radically changed the engine, allowing for larger BSPs in terms of tagsize, advanced render settings including view and draw distance, etc...basically most it does atm is make the limitations of the current engine look a bit more pretty.

Some people think OS is the future of CE, but how much people around here are into programming? How much peoople here are even proficient at the default HEK? Not that many indeed. OS would need to be VERY WELL documented for it ever to stand a chance at becoming the future of CE, the promise of "support" is not enough, and need to be entirely bug-free and working on virtually any computer setup. Combine that with the fact that it's impossible to acquire a license to go commercial with HEK for normal people, and one might as well just learn UDK or CryEngine if they want to make a game that looks pretty and all that jaz.

As for using PM's, they get ignored mostly cause hey...they are elitist.

I have no doubt I will get rage for pointing out the harsh truth, I don't care.

I totaly agree. I think OS is a good expension for halo, but people don't know when you make a scenery, vehicles, etc... the original HEK is very good. The TM mapping team has make a very impressive campaign with the original halo 1 tagset with little new things ( drone, elite shielded etc...). I just want to say, is not nessassary to take OS for make your own tags, the original HEK is SIMPLY AWESOMME DUDE!!! ;)

What have I got to do with it? o.O

Anyway, I disagree. Halo's engine can do a lot without OS, yes, and CMT could make something original rather than simply modifying an existing creation to make it prettier, but, there's one thing you need to understand...

IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE.

If you want to make something original, go ahead, and sure you can make the point that CMT should make something original too. But at the end of the day, they may decide what they do with their time and if they want to mod something rather than developing a full custom campaign, that's their choice. Who knows, after SPV3, they might decide to take up your challenge and make something entirely original.


Besides that point, you also seem to be making the point that OS is useless for those without experience.
Well, to be creative, you have to improvise. Documentation merely turns people into parrots and has them lose the entire idea of experience. The first men on earth didn't know what the chicken was just by looking at it. They didn't see "Chicken" written in a little speech bubble above it's head. They improvised, and fed themselves.
(Fine, men came before chickens, but you get my point. -.-)

Your point about lack of documentation being a good thing is unbelievably ridiculous and idiotic.

I have extensions that actually increase the maximum rendered polycount for bsps. CMT isn't using them, but they're already in OS and anyone can use them when it's released. See here for more details:
http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?23658-We-re-back!-CMT-Returns!&p=600791&viewfull=1#post600791
You're really underestimating OS if you think all that can be done is "make things more pretty". The shader extensions themselves should be an example of how powerful of a tool it is, rather than an example of its limitations.


OS isn't just some straightforward program, it's way more technical than that, so by it's very nature it requires advanced to intermediate reverse engineering skills and a good understanding of C++ programming. I encourage you to try, but there's really no way of getting around the skills required to develop for something like this. There's quite a bit of documentation in OS that allow users to modify simple values in certain structures, these require no reverse engineering experience (just some very basic programming). Your rant about being "entirely bug-free and working on virtually any computer setup" is entirely unrealistic for any piece of software, let alone something made by a third party. Bugs will always be present, we can only eliminate them to a reasonable degree to allow for a large chunk of the population to play without any problems.
Edited by Choking Victim on Nov 11, 2011 at 08:45 AM

Programmming/reverse engineering knowledge is required by the makers of OS, who create the new features/commands. But assuming there's an installer and perhaps a tutorial or two on implementing it, even the normal halo mapper with no C++ knowledge could use what it does.
So to the OS guys, I say make as many commands and features as possible before you die in the community, make sure there's an installer, and mission accomplished.

Yes, I should clarify, you don't need programming experience to USE the extensions, only to develop them. Anybody can pick up and use the OS hek supplied by the installer and use the extensions.

It's too bad there isn't an advanced version of blam! out there that is available for licensing for free, such as UDK has.

I'm right there with you, things would be a lot easier if we had the source code.

....Soooo.....Any updates on cmt work?

Don't know if these have been answered but I'll ask anyway:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2inQJ4gEHjU
Will the homing feature seen in this video be used?

2. If my memory serves me correctly, at one point ODSTs were going to be in SPv2, will they still make an appearance?

3. Will the spartan laser still be a usable weapon?

Thanks

Several pages of completely off topic discussion were deleted to return this thread to the subject. Those of you that know better should have remained silent and those of you that don't well you should take the time to learn before posting.

Please stay on the topic and act the way you say you want to be treated. Thank you.

Can anyone confirm that this works? If so we will include this in SPV3's CMT extras..
Edited by Masters1337 on Nov 13, 2011 at 02:19 AM

I can try, what's it do

e: HAH! I'll be damned. It works. wish I would have known that a long time ago

this enables magnetism for controllers. tested with wireless 360 controller. does not affect mouse/keyboard.

Whats the name of the device you used to get the 360 controller hooked up? Also operating system? I'm on XP and want to try this out tomorrow.

Edit: Wish I had known about this sooner, would have tested it out the setup I had when I got back into CE this summer.


Edited by Masters1337 on Nov 13, 2011 at 03:51 AM

Controller (Xbox 360 Wireless Reciever for Windows)
7 64 bit

kind of suprising Halo's had controller support build in and hidden away for so long... playing with it online actually feels pretty damn nice

find it ironic that everyone complained about it in halo 2 vista but in halo 1 it's a godsend lol

I like how you have made awesome new jackal looks good keep it up!

Are you going to make new Grunts, Elites, Brutes and Hunters or just keep them the same?

We're committed to holding everything to the same visual quality.