I am working on a map (disign) that has animated pelicans flying between the base and the center of the map. It's a multiplayer map and I want to allow the players to sit in the back seats of this animated pelicans. However after having a good look at some other mpas whit custom animations I belive they don't syncronizize. Is there a way to get that pelican flying there smooth looking? Also they do not fly constandly they start flying when the script tells it too. I concidered using a door animation but thats a weird and hard to do solution.

What is the best way of doing this?

Custom animations do not sync, nor do device machines or animated scenery. Script initiated effects are prone to inconsistent operation and lag due to the fact that the animation does not sync and runs on the client at a different rate than it does on other clients and the server. Anything that is not an on/off operation like a door will not be suitable for a multi-player game because the position and status is not transmitted between clients and server. Even on/off script initiated device machines like doors are prone to positioning errors in multi-player games but the margin is such that it can be acceptable.

So there is completely no way to make a pelican fly in multiplayer whitout a player flying it?

Not and make it sync. You can create an animation but it will not sync. You can create an animated scenery object but it will not sync. You can create a device machine but it too will not sync. If you want other players to interact with the pelican during game play then it has to be driven by a player or else it will not sync.

If you just want it as an atmospheric effect then any of the three options can be used. But it will not sync.
Edited by Dennis on Sep 19, 2010 at 05:18 PM

Yea Denis I got the point but I'm just looking for any way around that facts.



Ok this sounds like a way to lag a game enormous. If I got that right this is not an option. Otherwise it might be.

That is the problem with facts they tend to be undeniable. I have a good idea as to what you want to do and trying to sync a device machine that is not on/off with a biped crush script will not work for your application in a multi-player game. That is why they designed the game with teleporters instead of transporters; to get around not being able to move players with devices.

All scripts run locally on the client at different rates depending on the PC and the trigger. The amount of movement position and status that you want to sync in three dimensions - a flying vehicle - can not be transferred across the network connection in a simple on/off biped crush script. Don't forget that you want the same for both teams so your information transfer needs to be double what you already can't do.


Edited by Dennis on Sep 19, 2010 at 06:57 PM

lol^^. double what you already can't do. that's a hard blow to the face.

this seems possible.

i dont see how this is going to work, or if it does work, how it's going to be worth it. even if you had the animation sync'ed in multiplayer, the animation would have to be so simple that it would look ridiculous. It'd be better looking, more practical, safer and more reliable to have human players fly in between bases. What happens if an enemy jet starts chasing the animated Pelican? you can't just jump out, you can't take evasive action. one missile and all onboard players die. nobody would want to willingly get on a death trap. A player controlled pelican can provide safe passage for all players

Elaborate how it is possible to script the biped sync method with an animation frame number. I don't see how that works at all.

im just saying that enemies will easily be able to shoot you, and you can't evade. Snipers, jets, whatever. And the ideas before were to make the pelican move without any variable movement, to allow syncing

You are overlooking his actual application which is an autonomous pelican Vehicle that ferries players back and forth or at least forth. A device machine would not work for this application.

is "unit_create" a valid script command? if so then this script could work just double it and put it in reverse. or make the entire animation go forth and back all at once with a big pause to let people on to get back.

you don't slide off device machine's? well now.

what exactly is a device machine? how can it be implemented in game to warp physics?

Ok there are a couple of questions whitch I already solved myself before you guys asked.

- What if someone attacks the pelican?
Simply nothing happens. The attacker can shoot what he/she wants but wont do any damage.

- So how do you make the pelican go back?
I reconsidered that maybe it doesn't need to. Bringing the players away from the base should be enough.

Note that the pelican also should be able to take a vehicle whit it.

I'm seriously rethinking this and I belive I should start on the map this is meant for so I can see what works and what doesn't work.

a device machine (to me) is just scenery that animates when u get close to it or when a switch is turned on.

well, that would mean the gondola idea would work fine, in a worst case scenario, and Niels, do you mean that incoming fire will do nothing? if the enemy shoots directly at the player, the player is safe? or do you intend to have a door or something that folds down.
Will the player be able to shoot out? if the pelican only goes one way, there needs to be a reason that people would prefer to take it instead of taking a vehicle, which allows them to return to base or fight.

maybe you could make the pelican fly directly into a base that normal vehicles can't get into, but has a huge supply of weapons, health, powerups and sniper positions maybe? a couple towers would be cool. you'd need to make a collision field to prevent vehicles flying in, and make it so infantry can't just waltz in either, so each base is an ideal spot to get to, before joining the fight
Edited by Xaos on Sep 20, 2010 at 05:11 PM

This is the point I am making. The device machine does not actually sync even with your script and the amount of code needed to move a pelican in that way half way across a map is unwieldy and the result is unstable at best and unusable for normal game play.

The funny thing is that none of this takes into consideration how people actually play in the game. I seriously doubt that people would actually queue up waiting for the pelican once they re-spawn. Heck they hardly ever wait for a gunner to enter their hog.

The main reason there are teleporters in the game is precisely because there is no other way to autonomously move players from point A to point B.

Where and why is left to the map itself whitch is still under disign for improvement. Atleast the pelicans will start at the center of the base so they are easy to reach. And I had a plan for a door but I'm not sure yet. As for the damage: none can be done eigther way. To avoid oddball hiding I belive I should make it a from base to battle only trip.

Also I answhere to Dennis:

I DO actually consider how it will work out in gameplay. And the player shouldn't be waiting for the pelican, the pelican waits for the player.

I had my own idea of making this work btw. How about this one:
When a player enters a seat he will see an animation just like a recoded animation. He will see the pelican he just went in fly off and go to the land location.
Other players will on that point see an animation of a pelican flying from that base to the lnd point. However if the player carries something whit a pointer like a flag that should be at the right position too.
Sadly you come to the conclution that this all is exactly as what we came up whit in the first place. Just an animation of a pelican flying at the time the script tell it to. So this doesn't mean anything I suppose...

Still, it depends how long it takes to travel. if there are air vehicles onboard the main base, i doubt anyone would bother spending time doing nothing to arrive on foot, and only lightly armed against heavy vehicles. I reckon you should start the map, get it all ready, and maybe just start with man cannons or teleporters, before you add the pelicans. the best way to do anything is by starting with what you can do, and making it more complex later.

Any other ideas as to how you can make this an important way to travel? maybe if there were powerful anti-air turrets, you could use the pelican as the only insured safe travel system.

And maybe you can have a button you can press to make one of the pelicans fly into the hangar, ready to pick you up?

yea i was thinking about that. yea make 2 or three for each team so the wait time is lowered for a ride.

what i meant by the button is you hit the button, and a personal pelican comes to pick you up. if someone comes up right away and hits it, another one flies out of a tunnel in the hangar or something, and picks you up. there would still need to be a short timer or something, so people can't spam it. or maybe a set limit on how many pelicans can be active at once (8 at absolute maximum, to make teams even)

Not with players in it.

Actually I was the one that gave you that idea of the button :P. So yea that was the plan already. I tought of a time limit to avoid people from spamming the pelicans.
And I also had the plan of having multiple pelicans.
But there is still that problem of syncronizizing it whit players inside. I see if I can just make the vehicles flyeble by players but that would meant that I should make the map so that it forces the players to use the pelican for dropoff on the meant places. Like filling up other places whit trees and stuff to avoid droppings there.
But thats not what this topic is about this topic is about that pelican as animation and I want to be 100% sure we tryed everything. I simply don't like the way players fly pelicans. They are dropships not banshees :P. Pilots getting in and out, people using them in air battle and thos annoiing people that just diside to jump out of the pelican in mid air and leave you for the enemy.
An automated dropoff would be far more fun.

i was thinking make the player fly it in the direction you want. like when the player gets in to fly it he has no control over it and the animation would sorta take over. would that sync? would that even be possible?

Sounds like you mean that the pilot disides whitch animation to start. Then fly on 'autopilot':P. Cool idea but we haven't figuured out the way for 1 animation yet.

yea that's the idea. is it possible?

lol. hey dennis if this works will you feel bad for doubting him, be impressed, or just walk away and say nothing?

Thats what I'm trying to fing out whit this topic -_-.

And yea thats a direct attack on Dennis argument so this topic is about to become more intresting :P. Noone proofs Dennis wrong becaus he always has a strong opinion.
Round 1.... FIGHT!

lol. direct attack. it's more like a simple question.

@Niels, understand you intended for a button to activate, but I just thought it would be good to hit it, and one flies in to scoop you up. Another alternative is having a platform raise up out of the hangar, with the pelican. I'm going to implement that idea into my map, where there's kind of an elevator platform that brings more vehicles up into hangar bay.

It would be possible to make different routes, you just make different buttons, and keep the first part of the path the same, so they all fly in the same way, and none of them fly through any walls.

How would you attach the vehicle? another button? it'd be good if you paint out the line where the trigger runs through, so in game you can see if you parked your vehicle close enough to be picked up

Also, (this is borrowing part of one of your ideas) you could make it that there are teleporters or mancannons as well, but the enemy can sabotage your bridge/reactor and disable them all (the teleporters will be covered up by sliding walls) so it is mandatory to use the peli.

Also, i reckon you should add life pods, but not the normal flyable ones. Make them little to no steering, no acceleration or braking, and pretty heavy. Make the primary weapon a weak 'thruster' (explosion force behind you) and make the secondary a really powerful one, but with only one shot before a ridiculously long reload.

You hit the secondary fire, and you get blasted out of the ship towards the main island, and can steer slightly by looking where you want to go and using the primary fire thrusters. it's quick, it's safe, it would look cool, and it should be very easy to get working. just a bit of tweaking and testing required

Not at all. Although I sincerely doubt that it could work. Device machines run independently on each client and no status or position is transmitted across the network. The biped crush script has an inherent delay built in because of the methodology of utilizing the games physics to "crush" the biped. That delay would be magnified over a 1000 fold if you want to move a device a frame at a time utilizing the script he supplied. Especially if you are attempting to move it half way across a map at its normal speed. This is why usable lifts have never been made - all attempts have resulted in players and objects falling through them randomly. This is because the position on each client is not synchronized and there is a delay in activation caused by the very nature of the crush script. The player position in relation to the device is only valid for the local machine and the server doesn't know where the remote device is in relation to the player at all times as it does with objects it tracks.

With on/off devices like doors the position error, while still there, is small so can be ignored in game play but with devices that move objects any error will result in the server maintaining the player position at a rate the crush script can not match, which may not be in respect to the device: So they fall through.

When I say that things can't be done in the game it is because I understand how it works not to put up the arbitrary barriers you take it for. But knock your socks off.
Edited by Dennis on Sep 21, 2010 at 06:36 PM

I was thinking of having some 'elevators' in my hangar, that you can hit a button and more jets or a peli comes up (like on aircraft carriers)

Would i be able to counter the fall-through 'glitch' by making some form of collision field, that has collision of players, and most vehicles, but allows the pelican/jet to pass through?

So you would spawn in the hangar, see some jets, and your friends take them both. you hit a button, and two more rise up on a platform through a forcefield that covers the hole. Workable?

I'm happy to just have extra 'landing pads' with ladder access, i just think it would be cooler to have the elevator effect.

Also, for my Frigate idea, i want some kind of 'docking clamps' or at least bay doors that need to be opened for the frigate to fall out of the bay. If another player triggers the button, will you (in the frigate) fall out of the bay? (and fly when you are clear of the bay) it would basically be a door function, have bits slide back, releasing you from resting on them, and letting gravity do her thing.

well it's not an animation that just keeps running though. and it doesnt matter if a player joins in the middle of the animation because he can still attack the player in the pelican when the animation is over and the player gets out.

Which is much much slower than the network state transfer. That is why they glitch.