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Author Topic: Halo's Player Spawning System Explained (9 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Dec 14, 2015 04:07 PM    Msg. 1 of 9       
Hey folks,

As far as I've seen, there appears to be a general lack of knowledge about the way the spawn system works in this game, as evidenced by the player starting locations in the vast majority of maps produced.

Read on for a very thorough explanation. I shamelessly copy/pasted this from the website http://halospawns.com/, which has proven to be an invaluable resource to anyone that wishes to take the game seriously at a high level. All credit goes to Mintograde (also known as Relyx), as well as ChaosTheory & insidi0us for the initial research.

Quote:

Halo Spawns


The simplicity and predictability of Halo: CE's spawn system make it a powerful tool for skilled players. Players can place a teammate safely out of harm's way, or they can turn the tide of a losing battle with an aggressive spawn. Mastering the spawn system is crucial to improving as a player and as a teammate, so let's dive right in.


The Basics


In general, a dead player will spawn at the spawn point closest to a living teammate. If there are no living teammates, or if no spawn points are close enough to a teammate, a spawn point is randomly chosen.

Spawn Points

Spawn points are locations on the map where a dead player can come back to life. These spawn points are often placed in corners or easily-identifiable locations, so learning the spawns on your favorite map is not difficult at all. You can walk through the popular competitive maps by clicking Explore the Maps above.

Distance is Everything

Distance is the only factor considered when selecting a teammate's spawn point; it doesn't matter where your teammate died or which spawns the enemies are looking at. The closer you are to a spawn point, the better the chances of your teammate spawning there.

The Numbers Game

When choosing a spawn, the game checks how far you are from every spawn point on the map, and assigns a percentage to each spawn. Nearby spawns get a much higher percentage than distant spawns. It's common to have situations where, for instance, your teammate has an 80% chance of getting the closest spawn, a 15% chance of getting the next closest spawn, and a 5% chance of getting some other spawn on the map. If you're the same distance from multiple spawns, your teammate has an equal chance of spawning at each, but taking just a couple steps closer to one of the spawns will greatly increase the chance of giving that spawn.

How Far is Too Far?

As you move farther from a spawn point, the percent chance of your teammate spawning there decreases, but not at an even rate. The percent stays relatively high as you move away from a spawn point, but then rapidly approaches zero as you approach a certain distance. This distance is shown in blue in the above images, and is the same for all spawns on all maps.

Spheres of Influence

This distance extends in all directions, so you can imagine each spawn having a "sphere of influence" around it. If you are inside a spawn's sphere of influence, there is a good chance of your teammate spawning there, but if you are outside the sphere, your teammate will likely spawn somewhere else. In most areas of Halo's maps, you'll only be close to two or three spawns at any given time, so you can just take a few steps toward the spawn you want to give your teammate.


The Cool Stuff


Blocked Spawns

By standing very close to a spawn point, players can prevent the spawn from being chosen. As this image illustrates, teammates of the spawning player must be very close to a spawn point to block it, while enemies can block a spawn from farther away.

Forced Spawns

When a spawn is blocked, the game finds a new spawn by recalculating all the spawn percentages as though the blocked spawn does not exist. This is a good way to "force" your teammate to get a desirable spawn. An example of this is the pair of spawn points near the "blue pistol" area of Hang 'em High, shown in this image. If you block the lower spawn, your teammate is almost guaranteed to get the upper spawn.

Random Spawns

Now that you know how to spawn your teammates next to you, let's talk about how to get your teammates away from you. When all spawns have approximately the same likelihood of being chosen, the spawn is effectively random. There are several scenarios where a random spawn is possible:

  • All teammates are dead.

  • You are not inside any spheres of influence.

  • All nearby spawns are blocked by teammates or enemies.

  • The game chooses a low percentage spawn instead of a high percentage spawn (commonly called a "random" random).


In general, unless you need immediate help securing a weapon or powerup, it's a good idea to roll the dice and give your teammate a random spawn. If you find yourself trapped in a bad area of the map, the last thing you want to do is trap your teammate there with you. It's sometimes better to let yourself die if it means your teammate avoids a terrible spawn.

Large maps like Hang 'em High have many areas with no nearby spawns, making it easy to give a random spawn no matter which area of the map you're in. Small maps like Prisoner, on the other hand, have spheres of influence covering the entire map, so the only random spawns will come from an entire team being dead, enemies blocking spawn points, or the unlikely "random" randoms.


Some Notes


This guide was created with two versus two Team Slayer in mind. The same concepts hold for different gametypes and player counts, with the following caveats:

  • There are no teams in Free For All, so every spawn is random.

  • Maps have a separate set of spawn points for Capture the Flag, and those spawn points are separated by team color.

  • Maps have a separate set of spawn points for Capture the Flag, and those spawn points are separated by team color.


When two or more teammates are alive, each teammate seems to have an equal influence on spawn locations, but more testing is required to verify this.

If you have any issues, feedback, or suggestions for the Halo Spawns project, shoot me a message just about anywhere @Mintograde, or on Xbox Live @Relyx.

Special thanks to chaosTheory and insidi0us for their excellent work deconstructing Halo's spawn system many years ago, and to everyone who's ever introduced a new player to the game we fell in love with.


Now that that's out of the way: I'm trying to figure out how to make spawn placement easier for map designers. As you can tell from the above information, spawns need to be placed with their "sphere of influence" in mind. As it is now, in Sapien it is only possible to place player starting positions as "points."

As far as I know, the only way to accomplish this would be to create a sphere, set the origin to be at the center, and place them around in 3ds max. Then, each spawn point's coordinates would need to be copy/pasted into Sapien. My question for the community: would it be possible to somehow export the coordinates of the spawn points placed in 3ds max? Perhaps as nodes or something?

Either way, I implore all map designers to place their spawns according to the information above. I learned about this stuff after publishing the beta build for my map, and I now realize how important spawn point placement is, judging from how easy it is to spawn trap people in certain rooms and how hard it is to get out of such a spawn trap.
Edited by stunt_man on Dec 14, 2015 at 04:07 PM


StormUndBlackbird
Joined: Oct 27, 2011

https://youtube.com/StormUndBlackbird


Posted: Dec 14, 2015 04:52 PM    Msg. 2 of 9       
Revenge spawn system is still for real.


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Dec 14, 2015 05:44 PM    Msg. 3 of 9       
There are several methods I can think of to visually represent spawn points' spheres of influence.

First, start by quantifying the size of the spheres. Apparently the falloff gradation of the sphere is not linear, but more on that after the first method.

First method: create a simple sphere model in 3dsmax and use it as scenery in Sapien. Assuming you know the spawns' sphere influence size, this should be easy. You might want to use a half-transparent shader because since the influence is non-linear (back to the first point), you might want to use a sphere within a sphere to define two levels of influence.

Once you create that first model, you can place them as scenery all around the map to see if any 'spawns' overlap and adjust accordingly.

A second method would be to create the scenery sphere object in the BSP, place copies all around the map (basically what You'd do in Sapien, but in 3dsmax instead.)

When that is done you could export the sphere models as one scenery (but you don't really need to since you can see it all in 3ds max.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Dec 14, 2015 06:24 PM    Msg. 4 of 9       
Yeah that makes sense, it's pretty much what I had in mind as well. I was just wondering if I was missing something, like being able to exports nodes and use Sapien's snap functionality (doesn't seem to work).


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Dec 14, 2015 06:40 PM    Msg. 5 of 9       
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
Yeah that makes sense, it's pretty much what I had in mind as well. I was just wondering if I was missing something, like being able to exports nodes and use Sapien's snap functionality (doesn't seem to work).



What I do (for my urban map with tons of scenery) is model the scenery wherever it will go in 3ds max. Then I export them all together as one large scenery model (or break it up as mecessary, more on that). They use the same frame node as the BSP itself, namely a box centered at 0, 0, 0 coordinates. Because the BSP and scenery model(s) share the same frame reference node, i can place the scenery at 0, 0, 0 in Sapien and the models will appear where they need to be.

An issue with this method is that lighting for the overall scenery is determined by the frame node, not the model itself. This means that if the scenery origin is in a dark corner, the entire scenery model will be dark as if it was in a shadow, regardless of whether the MODEL is in a lit place or not. (This doesn't apply to dynamic lights).

The best way around this is to separate the scenery into relevant chunks and export them as individual scenery models. Then you can go into guerilla and change the origin offsets (and proportionally, the offsets in Sapien) to place the pseudo-reference node closer to the scenery model itself, and the lighting will be far better than if the model was further removed from the true origin point (0, 0, 0 in this case)

For an example of the bad things that can happen if you don't do it right, look at the fences inside h3 foundry's hallways. At certain angles, the fog effect applies, and at others it does not. All the fencing in the halls and the buildings outside the windows are one scenery piece. (I was new to scenery manipulation of this level)


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Dec 15, 2015 02:09 PM    Msg. 6 of 9       
Nice post OP. I guess It seems I was incorrect wih regards to twitch streaming.


Can I ask is it possible to configure floating spawn points?

At the moment this can sort of be done in sapien simply by piggy backing a spawning point against a wall. Or using the coordinates fields.

Im invisioning the ability to move pointers up and down within sapien without relying on collision objs or typing in numerics.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Dec 15, 2015 03:05 PM    Msg. 7 of 9       
Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
Nice post OP. I guess It seems I was incorrect wih regards to twitch streaming.


Can I ask is it possible to configure floating spawn points?

At the moment this can sort of be done in sapien simply by piggy backing a spawning point against a wall. Or using the coordinates fields.

Im invisioning the ability to move pointers up and down within sapien without relying on collision objs or typing in numerics.


Pretty sure you'll have to edit coordinates. Likewise, you can do something similar to what Jesse and I are saying, which is to place things in 3ds max first and copy the coordinates into Sapien.

Not sure why you'd want floating spawn points, though...


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Dec 15, 2015 05:52 PM    Msg. 8 of 9       
Exactly, h3 foundry has spawn points on top of the scenery cargo boxes. This is how I put them there.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Dec 15, 2015 07:05 PM    Msg. 9 of 9       
Quote: --- Original message by: t3h m00kz
halo 1's spawn system shines in 2v2 slayer. Anything more than that and they become highly exploitable and annoying.

it's a bit of a dated system, but it works well if you know how to use it


I disagree about it being dated. It's predictable - but if you're saying it's dated because of its predictability, read on.

The multiplayer metagame of the other Halo titles (haven't played 5 yet) is extremely lacking because of the lack of predictable elements. The fact that the player spawns can't be manipulated, combined with the fact that the weapons can't really be timed, or acquired using nade tricks, significantly reduces the skill gap. It seems pretty clear that the design philosophy changed after Halo CE - other titles don't seem to have any elements that can be predicted/manipulated.

This sparks a debate about accessibility vs. longevity & mastery. CE is easy to pick up and play casually, but it takes a significant time investment to learn all the intricacies of the spawning system and all the map-specific stuff like nade tricks, setups prior to weapon/equipment spawns, etc. People played the game for years before learning all its secrets.

Obviously this would have people hooked for far too long and could potentially hurt sales of further titles, not to mention the fact that in a public online environment, you'll have new players getting hopelessly stomped by veterans that know all the tricks.

So it makes sense that they moved away from the design philosophy that supported such a wide skill gap. Personally I don't think marketing should have any influence whatsoever on design, but this clearly hasn't been an ethical issue for the vast majority of modern game developers, Bungie and 343i included.

When it comes down to it, CE's predictable elements (spawn system, static weapon times, acquiring weapons/equipment with nade tricks, etc) were dropped because people were able to use them to their advantage. This shrunk the skill gap and ensured that new players could do well online in Halo 2/3/Reach/4, increasing the chance that they stick with Halo over the competition (CoD, etc). It wasn't an issue in 2001, since there was no online play, nor was there any competition in the market of console first-person shooters.

It's unfortunate that marketing influenced the design philosophy to this extent, but the success of future Halo titles may have depended on it.


EDIT: if you're saying it's dated because it doesn't work with other gametypes, maybe "dated" isn't the right word. It would be great if the spawn system was adapted on a per-gametype basis, keeping it the same for 2v2, but making it work better for 4v4, etc.

Edited by stunt_man on Dec 15, 2015 at 07:08 PM

 

 
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