I'm curious. I am branching out of HCE at the moment into new indie engines to see if I like the way they operator and/or if they're as simple and easy, if not more so than the HEK. I've found an engine I quite like called "NeoAxis", but it still has extremely funky physics and odd development interfaces.

So, I'm now asking your opinion. Engines such as CryEngine and UDK are free to use, whereas other Indie/Moddable games like Skyrim, Arma and Garry's Mod have a cost. While Halo CE by itself is just a game, with the addition of the HEK, can it be considered as an Indie engine?

In the HEK EULA, there is nothing written that says you cannot remove files from the Halo CE installer and replace the files with your own.

So, does this then mean you can remove the maps and files you don't want in the installer and replace them with your own, to create an actual installer?

TL;DR

Is CE an indie game?
Do you think you would be allowed to remove maps from the CE installer and replace them with maps of your own to invent a true indie installer?

Anything you make with HEK is owned by MS

I have actually wondered about the same thing. I would assume you could, so long as credit to bungie and microsoft is given for ANY original asset present (this includes the engine, plus any tags). And only if you do not make any money off of it, sales or donations.

Keep in mind, I actually don't know how strict ms is with this kind of stuff, just guessing.

None of the ones you listed are really "indie" engines. They are full game development tools, designed to create and design AAA games for a competitive market. A real indie game engine is stuff like the HPL (H.P Lovecraft) Engine, designed by Frictional Games of the Amnesia/Penumbra series, or other in-house engines designed and created completely by indie game studios/company's/teams of people.

That is not saying those game engines cannot be used for indie games or starting out - but if you're going to, be sure to know what you are getting yourself into. Don't plan on making a game and being financially independent from there on or making something fantastic on your first try. It takes alot of time, work, and experience to make something interesting and fun for people who may want to buy your game (if you are selling it).

To answer your question though, the problem with the HEK is that, unlike Source, Cryengine, or UDK, the HEK cannot be used for making indie games for multiple reasons. And no, CE is not a indie game. It's an expansion of a AAA title that made millions of dollars within the first week of its launch.

Here are the reasons why HEK is not good or possible for a true engine:

1. MS most likely will never let you. I'm not saying its impossible, but its statistically unlikely - considering its never happened before, AND, the game engine is seriously outdated.

2. Without proper modification to the actual engine (The hek is more so just an editor really. You cant make changes to how the engine works), you wouldnt be able to get your own EXE files setup correctly for your own SP or MP. The single player maps are hardcoded, same with the default MP maps.

3. Total-Conversion. You'd need to start from scratch. Some of the editors features in both Sapien and Guerilla are still somewhat unexplored or locked. While Kornman00 has done a lot of things to bypass these, some things are still hard to deal with or understand. You'd be making your own tagset from scratch.

You are really better off doing the following:

1. Learning UDK, CryEngine, or Source - or some other engine you can use commercially, but also free for free games to learn first. These engines are more complex than you may think, but so is the HEK. It's just like learning that one all over again, except this time you have more tools and advantages at your finger tips.

2. Learn C++ or Java (Learn C++ you fool). You can use these languages to create your own game engines, with graphic librarys such as OpenGL or DirectX (Learn OpenGL!!!) With this, you can be even more indie-pendent! (haha i made a joke). No but seriously, making your own game engine takes a ton of time, but in the end is a rewarding experience that will leave you independent with a suite of tools you know how to use already to start building your own games.

3. Using either of the 2 steps listed above, you can actually make money and/or have real engines that are up to date with todays standards are learn them for free, without any restrictions of the sort. You can learn and share things much easier to a wider audience than the Halo CE audience which is much smaller and dieing (which is a whole other story that I'd rather not get into), get actual feedback to common questions, etc... those game engines have been used for over a decade, if not longer, and C++, C#, Java, opengl, etc etc have all been around for god knows how long. They are all documented pretty decently with the exception of CryEngine (mostly in its coding department it seems).

I hope this long post answers your questions.

This thread is just... sad.

Also, MatthewDratt and Higuy using the same avatar...
This confirms that MD has finally become a *Can't say because of Dennis*

Well, i'll better go back to the lab.

Higuy stole my avatar

No it can't The Blam! engine is wholly owned by Microsoft and they retain the rights to it. Nothing owned by Microsoft could be considered as an "indie engine"
This is incorrect. Section 2 states "Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than one computer"
No and No. You do not have rights to the game or the software product nor does the EULA allow it.

Halo like just most all other game engines such the ones you mentioned (CryEngine, Unreal, Source) are commercial and copyrighted products where the content made from or for the game is covered under the copyright and end user license. Essentially while they allow you to create content for those engines you cannot sell package or distribute your own game or content made from those product without obtaining a license from the copyright holder.