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Mator has contributed to 78 posts out of 465278 total posts
(.02%) in 4,904 days (.02 posts per day).
20 Most recent posts:
Halo CE General Discussion »
Deadpoint - Halo PC Trick Jumping Montage Apr 8, 2013 01:22 PM
(Total replies: 12)
Quote: --- Original message by: master noob I think enabling the sound of the explosions would make it better and punctuate the jumps rather than continuous music, but it would be funny to see people attempt this online with no deathless :3c Maybe, but it'd be pretty quiet most of the time like that. I'll give it a try sometime. Quote: --- Original message by: bourrin33 You must be badass at using grenades... Looked cool, 10 minutes more wasted without doing tags for Altis :D I'm alrite. Nothing too amazing though imo. I do jumps. ;) Get back to those tags bro!
Halo CE General Discussion »
Deadpoint - Halo PC Trick Jumping Montage Apr 7, 2013 11:57 AM
(Total replies: 12)
Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice Gawww, I haven't seen trick videos since Ms Man :D Ms. Man is classic. I love all his vids. Quote: --- Original message by: Thorolf Kveldulfsson Better than the Ghost Froom. Well, it's certainly being better received than the Ghost Froom. It's a bit easier to understand than the Ghost Froom I think. And I've been more humble with this video and haven't proclaimed it as the best thing since sliced bread, so that probably helps. Learning new things all the time. ;)
Halo CE General Discussion »
Deadpoint - Halo PC Trick Jumping Montage Apr 7, 2013 02:11 AM
(Total replies: 12)
 Hi halo maps modder-folk, Here’s a halo 1 trick jumping video I made which attempts to do jumps at the level of what’s possible in some of the later halo games. While this has absolutely nothing to do with modding, I hope some of you will be able to appreciate some of the jumps in this video.
Halo CE General Discussion »
Problem with dedicated server... Aug 13, 2012 04:26 AM
(Total replies: 10)
I know this is about 6 months late, but I've seen this problem before. There's no way to get around it that I know of asides from getting a new router. Essentially, something poopy goes down between your computer and the gamespy master server list and the port to connect to gets all flippeded up. No idea how to fix it.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 29, 2012 03:19 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz So basically you're saying.... we won? See, I can use your logic too! Ignorance brothers? Lolwut. No, I said you're a fool if you think I ever acknowledged you to be right or relinquished my position. Please, learn to think. There is no part of my post which suggests such inverted logic. Just stop. -Lock requested- Edited by Mator on May 29, 2012 at 03:23 PM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 28, 2012 04:31 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz Limited, Lodex is right. For example, I could say your ability to write correctly is poor because you don't know the acronyms: PEE* and AFOREST*. So obviously your grammar is atrocious. Knowledge of a subject isn't determined by knowing the fine details. A lot of people know a lot about game design. Whether they know the acronyms for Game Design Document or for Point, Evidence, Explanation doesn't matter. Most of us here know what we're talking about, even me. We're already explained everything to Mator and nicely put him down. Your appearance was needless and rude. P.S. This thread should just be locked in my opinion. * - Fine, school acronyms are dumb. I don't need them, and I don't care. Get over it. Lol, you really think you "put me down"? I'm still as confident as ever that a certain number of members at HMF are arrogant modders who think they know everything about Halo but don't know spit about stunting. No, this discussion ended with everyone exactly where they started. Nothing was accomplished because the sides could not come to compromise. -Mator
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 24, 2012 12:04 AM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: XlzQwerty1 However there is one final question. How would you yourself know that you're the one proven to be right? Experimental evidence shows certain things to be true. E.g. If the Ghost was past a barrier I would have noticed it. Edited by Mator on May 24, 2012 at 12:05 AM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 23, 2012 11:08 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: anonymous_2009 Wait, he stated he was a physics major ? (i'm not reading most of his crap his wall's of txt just looks like kiddy rage). Wtf has that got to do with a video game!? He has just lowered himself down the lowest you can go! AHAHAHAHAHAAHAH It has nothing to do with the game. I brought it up because another member brought up he was doing "physics calculations as to the nature of the universe", and that "this thread wasn't worth his time" because of this fact. In response to this I pointed out that I was studying physics too, and I asked him to share some of his work. You guys are really good at twisting things to fit your own arguments, should consider being politicians. ALSO: When I actually prove your argument wrong, you start calling me ignorant and unable to listen to what these "super experienced" modding folk have to say. Anyways, I'm done here. I'm not ignorant or foolish, and I've made clear, to the best of my ability, my knowledge in the game and how I know the things I do. Those of you who still doubt will always doubt because you're too self-righteous to admit that you were proved wrong by a halo stunter. You may twist my words to no end and you may insult me until there's nothing left of my character in your eyes. However, in the end it won't change a few things: 1. I'm thankful for your input, be it positive or negative, regarding the trick. An understanding of how the halo community, including those people who are modders/map-makers, view tricks/tricking is important to me. 2. The trick functions roughly how I've described it. Some minor details such as the nature of de-rendering and phantoming may not be exactly right, but overall what I have said is correct. You may talk about barriers, ceilings, and physics calculations all you like, it won't change the fact that experimental evidence overwhelmingly supports certain explanations while ruling out others. 3. This project, from beginning to end, has taught me some valuable things which I will take with me for the rest of my life. It has taught me about people, video games, video editing, and project management. 4. I do not regret posting it here, even for all the posts I have made and all the posts others have made. 5. People, here and elsewhere, have appreciated this trick. If you would like to engage in mature and open discussion regarding the physics of this trick please PM me. Until further notice I'm done arguing in this thread. From here on out I will be ignoring any argumentative/non-constructive posts, as further discussion is unlikely to accomplish anything more at this point. The entirety of my views can be accessed throughout the last 100 posts. -Mator Edited by Mator on May 23, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 23, 2012 02:04 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 You forgot to mention the top surface, called the sky. They were above the map, within the skybox. That is why they were able to jump so high. If they were within the map, the sky surface would stop them from jumping higher than it. TBH I imported the bsp into max just to check if I was correct, but I can't be sure for that last part since it seems as if it dosent import the +sky geometry into max. I made an assumption, so yes, hes probably either outside the map geometry or (becuase it is possible to break through when going very fast) or the sky geometry is just very high up. Ok, I think it's been made really clear by my footage that I'm not within the skybox, for there is a "barrier" which I hit when launching upwards which is just above the Ghost, which the Ghost also hits when it is Warp Launched. Also, unless you're moving at speeds beyond Mach 10 or something, there's no way you're going to break through a barrier by sheer force alone. I've hit the "sky" at Mach 3, I didn't break through it. Both me and the Ghost are moving nowhere near these speeds. Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy You are seriously one pretentious guy. You act as if you know absolutely everything about the physics in this game due to a stunt thats old as dirt, which it is obviously clear to experienced modders that you don't. Please start actually taking some criticism and some advice from us, and maybe you will actually learn. I can only imagine what people think of you if this is how you act in real life. Until you actually have some proof to back up all your claims I'm going to go ahead and propose that you are wrong and I am right considering the fact that I and many others actually have experience in creating maps and not to mention, adding barriers to them. 1. The stunt isn't as old as dirt, we've been over this. Don't even try to bring up that old argument again. 2. You can't deny that I know stuff, for I've been able to follow everything you've been saying up to terminology. You guys, on the other hand, keep jumping everywhere because you can't figure out what barriers are which. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. 3. I only act this way regarding stunts, because in regards to stunts I really do know what I'm talking about, whether you like it or not. Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy Probably not. However, you may be outside of it. It has been proven that with a high enough velocity it is possible to break out of it (see CMT Sparrowhawk testing by Rob), or if you drive a vehicle and jump out straight as it turns and hits you into a 90 degree corner you can also be pushed out (see z-Team Sanctuary) You can break through walls by vehicle bumping, but sheer force alone cannot break you through any barrier as far as I've seen, unless we're dealing with above Mach 10 speeds, because at that point I can't really say anything because I've never dealt with speeds beyond Mach 3-5. Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy Once again, little do you know that physics and collision geometry are totally different. Just becuase the vehicle is outside the skybox dosent mean you wont be able to hit it, it has collision geometry. This is a dumbed down version of the model thats invisible but you can hit and touch. Without it you would be able to walk right through the model. A physics tag is different where as it controls many of the factors for vehicles such as velocity and other factors. Oh no, I do know that. We went over this earlier. The fact is, if a vehicle leaves the "map" area and enters the "skybox" area it becomes nonsolid to players as well as other vehicles. This has been extensively verified. Here's a randoms screenshot demonstrating this:  If the Ghost is really inside the skybox then I would not be able to land on it. End of story. It has already been made clear, however, that vehicles can drive while inside of the skybox, so I do already know that velocity is still allowed for while inside the skybox. Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy "jump so high" thing is when we are referring to you being launched upwards due to the gernade explosion. You are either outside the sealed world or you are inside and the playerclipping is strictly vertical (like the cliffs) so you are never actually touching it. I'm in a sealed world on top of the cliffs. There's a playerclipping barrier that's toward my right (when getting launched) and an outer BSP barrier which is to my left. The barriers form a box:  This is exactly how it is. Formulate your theories around this or be wrong. Quote: --- Original message by: Reeiiko I wonder if anyone actually reads all these gigantic posts. They don't. Quote: --- Original message by: anonymous_2009 @Mator - Your not a modder, these modders who you are arguing do KNOW what they are talking about. Im sticking by what I said and that is this is pointless and your defending it is really funny. You remind me of one of them people who are sad enough to exploit a game to get an advantage over other places and just ruin the game for everyone.(Not Halo in general). No, they really don't. It's going to be really funny when they realize they were wrong, and I'm going to shove it in their face so they can finally give me some respect for knowing what I'm talking about. I never exploit the game to gain advantage over other people. I only do glitches in servers for glitches for fun. Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice Here: (1) the +sky is a material that is placed in max by the user, it is a solid surface that can be glitched through like level geometry - because it is the vehicle floor and ceiling can't be placed in max by the user, it is a setting placed during tagging, it is akin to hitting a giant rubberband, and going above it or below it with any aircraft-type vehicles(banshee, pelican, longsword, etc.) it's pretty much: if "vehicle">"floor/cieling" | --dZ . It is not possible to bypass these in aircraft because they serve as ACTUAL barriers. Because the ghost doesn't count as an aircraft, it can get stuck in the top surface(1) without the engine trying to lower it. NOT* because the barrier decided to glitch, hell it doesn't even care about the ghost anyway, only aircraft And besides, bumping into walls and behind ladders is funner than making hangers >:) And flying banshees upside down, and flying longswords upside down, and flying jets upside down And getting all of the invincible marines to the bottom of the bridge without getting killed And tank launching And mythos flipping And 15 second CTF in Danger Canyon And mid-air spartan ladders with no first step Edited by OrangeJuice on May 23, 2012 at 01:27 PM The "rubberband" barrier you're talking about is what I call "the Banshee barrier". As seen on Gephyrophobia, this is indeed a "rubberband" like barrier. However, there is definitely a "floor" associated with empty vehicles. Not sure what this is in halo modding land. Regardless, I know the barriers on this cliff, and the Ghost Froom is not above anything. It's inside of the "player-clipping" barrier, as you call it, but it's below the "sky" barrier, as you call it. And it stops in the barrier due to friction. If you think anything else you're wrong, and I don't see any reason to argue anymore because I feel it's already been made infinitely clear that I'm right.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 23, 2012 03:15 AM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle That so called static state theory is also incorrect No, it isn't. I didn't pull that out of my ass, there's a reason why I say vehicles have "static" states. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqL5IcmkQY Halo stops calculating physics when a vehicle isn't moving, optimizations, this isn't what is happening here though. "Optimizations" is a lousy word for this. Are you referring to the video which I posted for the Ghost Phantom Seat Balance when you say "this isn't what is happening here", or the Shroom in barrier? Because I said the reason the Shroom in barrier was stopping was because of friction, not SST. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle Those are still above the vehicle ceiling, you've only proven my point. Vehicles and players don't share the vehicle ceiling which is why it's called a vehicle ceiling. What in the world is the vehicle ceiling then? Ceiling means height limit, but I think it's damn obvious the Ghost can go a hell of a lot higher than it is at in that barrier without having to pass through any barriers/anything else. I also feel it's been made damn clear that physics is still calculated for vehicles which pass above this point. I can also directly show that stuff getting stuck to walls due to friction, as is being seen with the Froom, can occur as low as 2 meters above the ground. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain 11 world units is quite a bit higher than 30 meters. So no, I haven't proven your point, I've proven it's wrong. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle What are you doing ? From my perspective you are doing the same thing. It's like two bulls butting heads but I'm not making this up as I go along. It doesn't matter where you got this from, it contradicts experimental evidence and doesn't make any sense at all. This is why I'm so annoyed by it. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle Glad you agree with me, but your static theory proves otherwise that you are still thinking as a Physics major (also see your quote below where you use dt and df). Which is why you think that the ghost stops moving because of the immense friction from the invisible surface. Friction is in video games, and is especially present in Halo and on the bottom surface of the Ghost. The reason for this isn't entirely clear, but it is clear that the bottom of the Ghost has a VERY high coefficient of friction, if you'll forgive my physics terminology. Also, just because I use some of the stuff I've learned in physics to clarify some things doesn't mean I'm thinking like a physicist. A physicist would need some mathematical equations/relationships to come to any conclusions regarding this sort of stuff, but I'm working without that because I have an intuitive understanding as gained from stunting for the past 6 years. Hence: thinking like a Halo stunter. The static state theory is directly supported by experimental evidence and is supported by the rounding thing which was linked to earlier. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/learnt Takes a really arrogant kid to say something like that, especially when it's an american (just makes them seem even more stuck up and uneducated). Maybe you should spend some time learning about your culture, heritage, and history than trying to impress everyone with a silly little trick. Hmmm. I guess I was wrong. Cool tidbit then, learnt something new today (learnt is underlined in red according to my dictionary, meh). Takes a kid capable of growth and maturity to admit they're wrong and face up to it. So don't tell me I'm arrogant. I have very little interest in culture, heritage, and history, but I do know a fair amount regarding linguistics so as to understand why learnt would actually be a word. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle Never said I was a modder, just call me script kiddie. I make simple scripts occasionally. What language do you write your scripts in? Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle There is no "breaking", the physics model doesn't change. It was made not to change. It doesn't even change to match with animations. So how would it be possible that somehow the game learnt (colour isn't a real word right :P) to do something its' never known how to do by moving two spheres apart so that it can be pushed through the collision geometry. Simple answer: it can't. The spheres are meant to be immovable to simplify the collision of a complex moving object. As such the centre of gravity and moment of inertia are both pre-calculated when the physics model is compiled through tool. What you are describing is like a child saying something blatantly obvious, like a car is fast (in this case pushing geometry between two spheres, you can only describe it as a weak point). What I am explaining is why and how that car is fast. Get it now ? That's about as dumbed down as I can make it. This is true, it doesn't change. I'm not referring to the physics model explicitly when I say breaking and model in the same sentence, I'm referring to the Ghost's visual model. The game doesn't move the spheres apart, I never said that. I just said that the sphere's don't fully "fill" the Ghost's model, and thus there are places where there's a "dip" between the two spheres. E.g. Imagine two spheres of r=1 located at 0,0,0 and 1,0,0 respectively. At the point located at 0.5,sqrt(3)/2,0 there is a dip:  You are thus able to pierce into the rectangular region the two spheres take up at this point, and eventually through both spheres to the other side so long as the force exerted by the spheres is exerted radially (which it is). This is because the forces begin to cancel themselves out as you pass between the center's of the spheres. This is what I mean by a "weak point" in the Ghost's model. The centre of gravity and moment of inertia are irrelevant to our conversation. It's not that I don't understand the physics of the game, trust me, I've looked at the Ghost's physics spheres and understood how they functioned long before we had this conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6vMXuh_kVA&t=2m42s The question is whether you understand what I'm trying to say. All I'm saying is you can't force the level's geometry through the vehicle at any random place in the vehicle, you can only force it through at places in which is between two spheres, which can be thought of quintessentially as a "weak point" in the Ghost's collision geometry (where it is being stated in this way as compared with the "collision geometry" of a "Ghost" as it would exist IRL.) -Mator Edited by Mator on May 23, 2012 at 03:26 AM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 23, 2012 01:24 AM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy Quote: --- Original message by: Mator 'Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle you managed to get the vehicle above the vehicle ceiling. Halo simply doesn't compute physics at all when it isn't within the specified vehicle bounds, there is no friction or something like that. No, I didn't. There's no way to get above the vehicle ceiling without teleporting. It's just as strong as any other barrier, and trust me when I say that I've hit it a hell of a lot harder than I did when warp launching that Ghost in Barrier (and the barrier is in no way gonna help it get past it). Furthermore, if it was above the vehicle ceiling I wouldn't be able to get on top of it because there would be a barrier in the way, as stated previously. You stated previously that there is a player ceiling, which there is not. There is only a vehicle ceiling to the map, and it is at 11 world units high. That is not very high at all. You are obviously above it in the video. The playerclip, which is a player barrier, is not a barrier like the vehicle ceiling, were it as actual sbsp geometry in the map. The ones for Blood Gulch are not horizontal but rather vertical, which is why you were able to get up so high when jumping. Need proof? http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5438/bloodgulchsbsp.jpg The reason you got it above the vehicle barrier was due to it being stuck in the map geometry. Please start listening to the people that actual have some experience in modding the game for years. "Sprinkle" is a programmer, and definitely knows what he is talking about. He may be rather arrogant at times, but he is smart none the less. Ceiling and clipping mean the same thing in my "layman's definition book". Where ceiling is the maximum height an object can reach before being stopped by a barrier. Extensive experimental evidence suggests that the player and vehicle ceilings are the same on all maps. This backs up what I have said. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure the ceiling is the same on cliffs as it is off of cliffs. So high when jumping? What? I didn't do any jumping, are you referring to launching? Your post of stuff from guerrilla is meaningless to me. You have a so called "vehicle ceiling" being referenced, but it is not specified that this doesn't affect players or that this is the exact "ceiling" which vehicles and players run into when they launch. So you're saying I got a Ghost past a vehicle "barrier" because it was stuck in the map geometry? That makes no sense at all, kiddo. Furthermore, it definitely doesn't explain how Sprinkle is absolutely wrong about everything regarding this, including why the Ghost stops in the barrier. He and you may both think you know what you're talking about, but all you're referring to are ambiguous numbers. Actually testing stuff ingame is the only way to have true experimental and solid results. I've done this extensively and my conclusions are as follows: 1. It doesn't matter where in a barrier a Ghost is, it can always come to a stop in the barrier, floating. 2. The Ghost can be launched up to various altitudes and can slide down the entire way without any resistance. 3. Players can launch on top of the Ghost, then ride it or melee it down the barrier. 4. The highest the Ghost can get is bounded by a barrier which is the same barrier which bounds how high a player can get above the cliffs. 5. The outer BSP barrier (the barrier past the barriers which prevent you from getting on cliffs) slopes inward to meet the cliff barrier at a point on Infinity on the Blue Base Cliff Ring. Many of these results directly conflict with what you have said, and thus make what you have said contradictory to experimental evidence. And since what happens in game is the ultimate reality of what happens in the game, this makes you clearly wrong. Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy The playerclip, which is a player barrier, is not a barrier like the vehicle ceiling, were it as actual sbsp geometry in the map. The ones for Blood Gulch are not horizontal but rather vertical, which is why you were able to get up so high when jumping. You forgot to mention the top surface, called the sky. They were above the map, within the skybox. That is why they were able to jump so high. If they were within the map, the sky surface would stop them from jumping higher than it. Ok now we're talking about a top surface, called "the sky". Is this the so-called "ceiling" that I'm referring to? The Ghost is definitely not in the skybox, else it wouldn't be solid to the barrier and would come out of it. It would then not make sense for me to be able to influence it, now then would it? You said yourself, physics interactions don't occur with vehicles in the skybox, and I've observed myself that when a vehicle is considered entirely inside the skybox (viz., outside of the map) players can walk through it, vehicles can pass through it, and players can't act on it or get inside of it. Remembering this actually seems to contradict what you said earlier about "walls" being one-sided the only thing which allows things to act like they're "non-solid" while outside of the map, for if this were truly the only case there should be no situation in which I am able to walk through a vehicle, let alone put one vehicle entirely inside of the other. What is this whole "jump so high" thing? What are you guys even talking about with this? You're making absolutely no sense at all. -Mator Edited by Mator on May 23, 2012 at 01:36 AM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 22, 2012 06:10 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle That so called static state theory is also incorrect No, it isn't. I didn't pull that out of my ass, there's a reason why I say vehicles have "static" states. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqL5IcmkQY Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle you managed to get the vehicle above the vehicle ceiling. Halo simply doesn't compute physics at all when it isn't within the specified vehicle bounds, there is no friction or something like that. No, I didn't. There's no way to get above the vehicle ceiling without teleporting. It's just as strong as any other barrier, and trust me when I say that I've hit it a hell of a lot harder than I did when warp launching that Ghost in Barrier (and the barrier is in no way gonna help it get past it). Furthermore, if it was above the vehicle ceiling I wouldn't be able to get on top of it because there would be a barrier in the way, as stated previously. If this really isn't enough for you it's really freaking obvious that you're wrong given screenshots of the Ghost floating at lower altitudes:    Stop acting like you know everything, because you really don't. Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle You need to stop thinking like a Physics Major forget everything you learnt in your prestigious physics course cause it won't help you in a game world. I'm not thinking like a physics major, I'm thinking like a Halo Stunter. Little of what I've learned in Physics has anything to do with what happens in video games, as video games are vast simplifications upon the real world. Learnt isn't a word. You need to stop thinking like a modder, there's severe limits to what you can do in Halo without mods. Breaking past the vehicle ceiling by sheer force alone is one such limitation. Quote: --- Original message by: SprinkleThere is no such thing as a weak point between two spheres, the computations are done per sphere, so if something were to try to enter the gap between the two sphere it would slide along both spheres until the difference is too little and bam surface in between two spheres. There is a weak point in that when you're approaching "between" the two spheres you're not directly approaching either of them, thus dr/dt is decreased and since the forces the spheres exert are radial this decreases df/dt as compared with approaching a sphere directly. There's a reason why you can only pierce a vehicle at certain places, it's because those places pass between the spheres and thus are "weaker" than others. Weaker being an informal word in reference to the force preventing you from breaking the Ghost's model. Seriously, shut up, you're getting annoying trying to be right about everything. Edited by Mator on May 22, 2012 at 06:16 PM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 22, 2012 01:44 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Bobblehob Or maybe you should just say it, instead of me having to spend an hour reading all the useless argumentative crap you have been posting xP Quote: --- Original message by: Mator It was met with a lot of skepticism and general douche-baggery, but I'm still posting here on HaloMaps for three reasons: 1. I don't want to let a bunch of sourpusses stop me from sharing my accomplishments/videos. 2. I want to show them that they were wrong about it being not legitimate and about me knowing nothing about Halo's physics engine. 3. I don't want to deny someone the chance to see this who visits halo maps just because some other people went into a bitch-fest over the trailer. Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz Wow. I thought we'd finished this argument. This endeveaour has taught Mator a lot thus it is not pointless. Deal with it. The trick looks cool, and it's had a lot of research behind it for it to be possible. None of you actually have any clue what you're talking about it in arguing with Mator due to him having rather more complex degrees in different areas to you. He is studying physics, you are studying 3D art and game design. Physics ties into tricking in ways you probably can't imagine with your narrow-mindedness, thus this endeveaour is far more complicated than it seemed, and you could not have done it yourself without prior research, which has now been supplied by Mator himself. Endeavor*, just for future reference. The second paragraph I agree with, it states my position fairly well. The third however, is a mockery and puts words into my mouth which I never said. The only reason I brought up that I was a physics major is because you brought it up in a pompous manner saying "I have better things to do... HMPH." I never used it in any way in my argument that this trick is cool/a worthwhile endeavor. I also never said I was better than anyone because I was studying physics. That too, you put into my mouth. That is what YOU said. Finally, I do agree that others here could not have done it themselves legitimately without having a heavy background in stunts and Halo's physics engine. There was some argument earlier about reading about game design and actually modding stuff. Well, the way stunting relates to "a general understanding of Halo's physics engine", is actually quite similar. While you may know a whole assortment of conceptual truths about Halo's physics engine your capacity to apply them through stunting would be severely limited without prior experience doing so. If you don't believe me then go create a new stunt and show me that you didn't refer to any material on stunting and I'll take back what I said. Moving on... Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Can't judge people's intelligence on the internet upon the basis of their english. Srsly. BTW: I'm a physics major too, brolaf. Are you doing particle physics? My TA was talking to me the other day about the standard model and the extension of super symmetry. Not quite as much math as conceptual though, I'm a first year. You sound pretty... pompous though, talking about equations regarding the nature of the universe. What year are you/are you in graduate school? Have any published papers or anything? I don't need a Physics degree to be able to work out equations. I have a rather helpful advantage. I've never really been wrong in my life. Even if somebody corrects me, I will find that there is a rather complex explanation for why I am in fact right: a week later. Of course, you wouldn't believe me, being a pompous ass who believes in university degrees that I'm almost certain I will achieve as I am working towards A Level... well, everything in High School right now, but then, I don't really care whether you believe me or not. Edited by Jaz on May 22, 2012 at 05:33 AM No, you don't need a Physics degree to work out equations. Yes, you could very well be a "savant". I don't doubt the possibility of this, just the plausibility of running into such a "savant" on a Halo Maps Forum, just as someone earlier was doubting that "a physics major would be dedicating 80+ hours on a trick while being in a class which attends graduate schools with the percentages of Ivy Leagues". I did not present my doubt how he did though, it an outward and obtrusive manner. Rather, I asked you to provide me with some evidence to back up your claims. Some paper or something of the sort, which would show me that you are indeed working on such equations. I'm not a pompous ass because I believe in university degrees. There are many people who go to a university to study the topic of their choosing, because a university degree can help you make your way in the world, and universities just so happen to be the center of research and development in most fields, like Physics. There's a student in my Physics class, he's 13. He's taking university classes while he finishes up high school. He's very smart, and I respect him for that. If you can prove to me your claims I'll respect you as I respect him. Quote: --- Original message by: anonymous_2009 This is the most pointless thing I have seen. And for your claim of it taking "years" is just plain stupid! lmao What's the point of this? I don't see one... Things were spaced out. I didn't do everything all at once because that wouldn't be feasible. I have a life. Hence taking "years". I essentially would come back to it once every few days, and try again for an hour or two. That's how I went about doing this. When I finally got something, I would gather a large group of players in the server to take it to the end, sometimes going for longer periods of time (upwards to 8 hours). However, I don't think you can really talk here, because Halo mappers are just as guilty of this sort of thing, if not even more so. Many mapping projects take "years", so what I'm saying isn't all that exorbitant at all. Also, if you want to know what the point of this is then please educate yourself as per the discussion that has been had for the last 68+ posts. I'm not going to start from scratch just for you, for that would be a giant leap backwards. Edited by Mator on May 22, 2012 at 01:48 PM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 22, 2012 03:08 AM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Thus by a simple argument it becomes apparent that the spheres are directly related to the vehicles "solidity". Not exactly. Collision geometry is relative to the vehicle's solidity. Without it, you wouldn't be able to stand on top of it, and projectiles would go through it. The mass points or as you call them physics spheres are relative to impact with collision geometry. I've uploaded a video to demonstrate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QzkD7jAjuk Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Yes, objects become nonsolid in the skybox. I already knew this. Apparently not. I wasn't talking about objects. I was talking about the skybox itself. Once within the skybox, the only barriers are the top, bottom, and the sides of the sky. It's obvious that the Ghost still is collidable when it's in the skybox as you are able to stand on top of it. Edited by l283023 on May 22, 2012 at 02:22 AM Ok, so what you're saying is there's a separate "collision geometry" which deals with particles and players than that which deals with collision with parts of the map/BSP & other vehicles? I can believe that. Hrm. I personally think/thought that parts of the Ghost become/became nonsolid as they pass outside of the map and into the skybox. But there's many ways you can explain it, I s'pose. I guess what you're saying though is that walls aren't solid to objects which are in the skybox. This would make sense with what I've been observing for the past years just as well as any of my previous hypotheses. And yes, interestingly enough, now that you mention this I have thought of a particular piece of evidence which strongly suggests that this is correct:  This is standing on a Ghost that has been Shroom'd on Blood Gulch. Since the player is standing on a part of the Ghost which is in the skybox it would thus make sense that vehicles remain solid within the skybox, while walls do not (one-way-solidity, that is) Quote: --- Original message by: Bobblehob I really have to ask this, why in all honesty did you think it was going to be worth your time to post more about this project of yours on this forum, especially after how your last thread was received? I already answered this. Read some of my other posts.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 22, 2012 01:21 AM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 I think you might be a little confused. You keep saying collision model, and that is inaccurate with what you are describing. There are 2 separate tags, physics and collision geometry. What you have made in Max, is mass points for the physics tag. If you took away the physics tag from a vehicle, you would get a floating vehicle, since it would have no mass. Physics appear inactive when within the skybox. I'd like to mention that there is no collision geometry within the skybox. Yeah, that's inaccurate terminology I learned from tool and some other tarded modders (I think). I'm not confused though, just using incorrect words. What I have in Max are the physics spheres, yes. Mass points I suppose might describe them as well. They define the Ghost's "physics", so to say. They also are directly involved in forces which prevent the Ghost from passing through solid objects. Obviously because force is highly related to mass... (f=ma). I know this is the case in Halo because the only ways to split the Ghost's collision model is between these spheres. Thus by a simple argument it becomes apparent that the spheres are directly related to the vehicles "solidity". @Floating: yes, obviously. "physics appear inactive when within the skybox". Yes, clearly. I've known this for some time. I always lopped it in the same category as de-rendering (which deals with the disappearance of visual models due to obstruction/distance), but if you're telling me it is a separate & independent function then I can believe that. Yes, objects become nonsolid in the skybox. I already knew this.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 21, 2012 11:03 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 Wait one second... Lets go back to this. Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 I was going to watch the video, but then I lost interest at "One of the greatest halo tricks ever performed." I'm sorry that you're allergic to hype and reality. You probably won't live very long, if this is truly the case. :( In your reality, vehicles float in the sky? You need to stop taking shrooms. Lol. ^_^ Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle Collision doesn't have anything to do with what you see, they are completely separate from each other. There are plenty of surfaces that are double sided this is nothing new and nothing special about your so called "barriers". No it is not cool for it to be floating above the map as it is not really floating above the map, remember what I said about simulations ? Halo 1 defines a map as an enclosed space, therefore it is still within the bounds of the map, a collision surface caught in between two spheres due to floating point imprecision, if it wasn't it'd be falling to oblivion. Not so amazing when you've become educated to what's actually happening. I find your terminology hard to follow, but I assure you I know what's happening here better than you do. I'll try to decode your ambiguous message: Yes it is cool. Yes it is floating above the map. Yes a map is an enclosed space, I get that, when I say floating above the map I mean floating above the normal play area. Stop taking things so literally. It's floating *above* the ground, high enough to be considered *above* all normal parts of the level. Hence being *above* the map. Yes it is within the "bounds" of the map, I never denied this, you just misinterpreted what I said. A cliff is "above" the map, by my definition. The "map" being the "ground" which people walk on. This is not the technical definition of the map, but rather a layman's definition of what they understand the map to be, being confined in a certain manner. "A collision surface caught between two spheres due to floating point imprecision" Ok, you say a lot of stuff here. You're clearly referring to the invisible wall/barrier when you say "collision surface", and the two spheres are the sphere in the front of the hull and the middle of the hull:  You then mention floating point imprecision as the cause (or seem to, with your run-on sentence) for the surface being caught between the two spheres. I don't think this is correct. The splitting of collision models is because there are "weak points" where two spheres overlap in a way that forms a crevasse, so as to allow a surface to pass through the collision model and remain "through" the collision model as the spheres both exert forces perpendicular to the split and thus cancel each other out. Floating point imprecision may, however, be involved in the Ghost coming to a stop in the sky in the barrier. I just said friction was the cause in the video but I understood that "floating point imprecision" as you call it (static state theory, as I call it) might have been the cause as well. See here: http://halostunting.wikia.com/wiki/Static_State_Theory However it's yet to be proven that the Ghost wouldn't come to a complete stop in the barrier in an analog situation/a situation with considerably more precise calculations. Due to the nature of how friction forces act it may very well be the case that even in a purely analog situation which correlates perfectly to the one seen here with the Ghost in the barrier the Ghost, or whatever represents it, would come to a complete stop. This is why I just said "friction" and left it at that in my explanation videos. I personally find that all the explanations regarding how this works make it more amazing, rather than less. But you're entitled to your opinion, just don't try to force it on others, that's bigotry. Edited by Mator on May 21, 2012 at 11:07 PM
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 21, 2012 07:50 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Sprinkle So a baby takes a crap in it's diaper and tries to get every other person to give a crap about it. If you think your superman for doing this my hat tips to you, don't expect anyone else to give a crap. You were so bored you spent all your time in a game trying to do the same thing over and over, your lucky you have so much free time on your hands for being in first year university. Game physics are simulations with limitations and hacks to make it "believable" (ie halo having a vehicle "type" you can change in the vehicle tag, you don't put gas in an engine to make it turn, it's magic). Taking one physics class doesn't mean squat, especially if it's first year. I don't see this being any different than the other ghost stunt other than you moved the ghost to a part of the map where the collision has no equivalent render model so it appears to be floating in air and if that's suppose to be the wow factor than you haven't fooled many people sorry. I recorded all of this before getting to Uni. Most was recorded over summer/winter breaks. I'm not taking one physics class, I'm a Physics Major*. In a very prestigious program which has students attending graduate schools for Physics with percentages resembling Ivy Leagues. "The other Ghost Stunt"? The Shroom? Collision has no equivalent render model? You really think that's all a barrier is? Bro LAFF! A barrier is a planar object where both sides of the object are explicitly inside of the map's geometry, making both sides solid and thus allowing objects on both sides to be rendered by the game's engine. This makes both sides of the Ghost solid, making it an altogether different stunt than say, putting a Ghost inside of the ground. + making it float above map. Don't tell me that's not cool, because I know you're lying. Don't need to argue with you though, you're just trollin'.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 21, 2012 05:48 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz Quote: --- Original message by: Mator Quote: --- Original message by: Tiel Is spending 2 years mapping in a 10 year old video game worth it? You'll all say yes because you're in a community centered around it. Had Mator posted this in a forum for his hobby it'd be the reverse. Like I said...it boils down to personal preference. http://jumprs.org/ Got frontpage'd. And another community which isn't centered about tricking (rather, competitive halo) but 95% of the people there still liked it too: http://s9.zetaboards.com/HPT_Forums/topic/7340174/1/ :) BTW: Thanks for the defense Teil & others. I'm really glad to see some people are on my side here. It means I wasn't wrong about believing in the community here being comprised of some people who are capable of seeing outside of the realm of modding. :) That HPT forum is a bad example. Most of those people are just saying something akin to 'Eh, it seems lame, but I guess it's ok sorta'. They also seem like pretty unintelligent people, looking at their language. Anyway, yes, some of us look outside modding on this forum. My speciality is not in modding but thinking of hundreds of theories of the universe and not writing them down due to having too many complex equations that would probably take days to write down. I do still have some experience and knowledge in modding, but not being as obessed with modding or as specialised in modding as others on this forum means that I have a rather flexible view of this situation. Tricking can teach you a lot if you don't care about all the in-depth information that you would need for modding. So I apprecate the work you've done on this and I can see that it's probably taught you a lot. :) Edited by Jaz on May 21, 2012 at 05:31 PM Can't judge people's intelligence on the internet upon the basis of their english. Srsly. BTW: I'm a physics major too, brolaf. Are you doing particle physics? My TA was talking to me the other day about the standard model and the extension of super symmetry. Not quite as much math as conceptual though, I'm a first year. You sound pretty... pompous though, talking about equations regarding the nature of the universe. What year are you/are you in graduate school? Have any published papers or anything? Quote: --- Original message by: l283023 What we need is someone to make a mod where players spawn outside of the map. Then we'll leave you to find a way back inside. Just try not to take 2 years figuring it out. Infinity: holes in barriers. Other maps: get into vehicle on other side of barrier/use a Ghost in Barrier as presented in the video. In this way if you had someone on the other side they could fly a Banshee up to you for you to get inside of from the other side of the barrier. There's no other ways down without vehicles on top of the cliffs. If you have vehicles on the cliffs getting past the barriers is a cakewalk.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 21, 2012 04:59 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Tiel Is spending 2 years mapping in a 10 year old video game worth it? You'll all say yes because you're in a community centered around it. Had Mator posted this in a forum for his hobby it'd be the reverse. Like I said...it boils down to personal preference. http://jumprs.org/ Got frontpage'd. And another community which isn't centered about tricking (rather, competitive halo) but 95% of the people there still liked it too: http://s9.zetaboards.com/HPT_Forums/topic/7340174/1/ :) Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy Quote: --- Original message by: Wolf_ So if I understand this correctly, you got the ghost stuck in the playerclip, then launched it up to the part where the playerclip meets the skybox and then of course launching up to the ghost? I don't see it as a big accomplishment, but can't really comment on it being a waste of time, seeing as I have spent far more time making maps, which I really feel is a waste of time... Points for effort though. A bit over ambitious. He got the ghost stuck in the vehicle height limit. Thats basically why its floating, becuase the engine is telling the ghost that it cannot move above it. If it went above playerclip it would simply fall back down. No, it's not above the height limit. If it was above the height limit I wouldn't be able to get on top of it, for the vehicle ceiling is the same as the player ceiling. It's stuck inside of the playerclip barrier and got stuck due to the high coefficient of friction between it and the barrier. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_7BtC3afZo&t=19m4s BTW: Thanks for the defense Teil & others. I'm really glad to see some people are on my side here. It means I wasn't wrong about believing in the community here being comprised of some people who are capable of seeing outside of the realm of modding. :) Also, @Higuy: I did actually use some modding tools to find out certain facts about the game, and read material as well to confirm my ideas about netcode. I think I referenced a powerpoint earlier which is regarding the netcode in Halo Reach. This is one source of information which is particularly useful which you can't access through practical modding of games (the netcode is pretty heavy duty stuff, I highly doubt you've ever even looked at it, let alone understood it). I've also looked at models of vehicles, their physics, and other things as well. I've messed around in Sapien, I've customized maps with custom scenery, I've really done quite a bit more than what you probably guessed.
Halo CE General Discussion »
The Ghost Froom May 21, 2012 02:42 PM
(Total replies: 134)
Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz Quote: --- Original message by: Svanke Svans Your parents must be real proud of ya. Your momma ain't praid of ya, bruv. you people are so heartless and mean, i don't understand. Edited by Mator on May 21, 2012 at 02:47 PM |
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